Khieu Samphan then and nowPol Pot thought of me as a patriot, but intellectual—in other words, incapable of heading the revolution.
By Stéphanie Giry
Newsweek International
Sept. 18, 2006 issue - After a decade of stop-and-start negotiations, a United Nations-sponsored tribunal has finally begun to investigate the handful of Khmer Rouge leaders who are still alive in Cambodia. Prosecutors hope to bring them to trial for crimes against humanity, among other charges, next year. But many Cambodians are skeptical that justice will be done before the elderly former guerrillas die off. Most of the Khmer Rouge leaders continue to deny any knowledge of or responsibility for the estimated 1.5 million deaths that occurred between 1975 and 1979, when their forces emptied out Phnom Penh and radically reorganized the countryside. Khieu Samphan, Cambodia's president during the Khmer Rouge reign, recently spoke about his role with Stéphanie Giry. Excerpts:
Giry: How did you become affiliated with the Khmer Rouge?
Khieu:In the 1960s, after editing a progressive paper, I became a congressman and, briefly, junior minister of Commerce. I supported Prince [Norodom] Sihanouk, who advocated Cambodia's neutrality between the United States and Vietnam. But in 1967, after I was accused of instigating a large peasant riot, I was forced to go into hiding in the countryside. The Khmer Rouge were already active there, mobilizing and organizing the peasantry. The movement seemed like the only path toward social progress.
Your Ph.D. thesis, written in 1959, advocated the democratic collectivization of the Cambodian countryside. What was its relationship to the policies of the Khmer Rouge?
No relationship. It was a very academic, unrealizable thesis. [Khmer Rouge leader] Pol Pot thought of me as a patriotic intellectual. A patriot, but intellectual—in other words, incapable of heading the revolution. When I told him in 1975 that evacuating Phnom Penh would alienate the people from the party, he compared me to Gorky, who, distressed by the famine in the Soviet Union in the 1920s, kept questioning Lenin.
What did you think of the many people who were dying of starvation in the countryside?
Isolated as I was at headquarters in Phnom Penh, I knew nothing of what was happening in the countryside. I knew that people who had been evacuated from Phnom Penh were suffering, but I didn't know they were reduced to starvation.
What did you know about the 17,000 or so people [mostly Khmer Rouge officials accused of treason] who were tortured and executed at the S-21 complex in Phnom Penh?
I did not know of S-21.
How could you have known so little, given your rank?
My title was purely honorific; I had no power to make or execute decisions. My main task was to maintain relations between the party and the prince. [Also,] the Khmer Rouge was the most secretive of communist movements—absolute partitioning, no horizontal communication. The few times I did go to the countryside, I was escorting the prince on tours of new infrastructure projects and I saw only what he was shown.
When did you finally realize all those people had died?
In late 1998, after Pol Pot's death and the collapse of the movement, when I finally had a chance to talk to former Khmer Rouge fighters and cadres.
What did you think?
I was overwhelmed. And then I read and thought a lot. Between 1975 and 1979, the population died mostly of starvation and disease, which existed even before the Khmer Rouge came to power. The countryside had been ravaged by U.S. bombings. Famine was threatening Phnom Penh, which overflowed with refugees. Even a report from the U.S. Agency for International Development predicted a food crisis. Such frightfully difficult conditions must have convinced Pol Pot to go beyond communist orthodoxy by evacuating Phnom Penh and abolishing money.
Do you have any regrets?
I regret that so many lives were lost for nothing. Had we at least advanced economically, the unhappiness would have been good for something.
If today Cambodia were more like China, the experience would have been worth it?
Frankly, yes.
What do you think of the tribunal that will judge crimes committed during the Khmer Rouge regime?
I did everything I could to remain honest toward my country and contribute to its development and independence, and now I'm accused of genocide. I don't understand. And I'm sure most Cambodians don't understand either.
By Stéphanie Giry
Newsweek International
Sept. 18, 2006 issue - After a decade of stop-and-start negotiations, a United Nations-sponsored tribunal has finally begun to investigate the handful of Khmer Rouge leaders who are still alive in Cambodia. Prosecutors hope to bring them to trial for crimes against humanity, among other charges, next year. But many Cambodians are skeptical that justice will be done before the elderly former guerrillas die off. Most of the Khmer Rouge leaders continue to deny any knowledge of or responsibility for the estimated 1.5 million deaths that occurred between 1975 and 1979, when their forces emptied out Phnom Penh and radically reorganized the countryside. Khieu Samphan, Cambodia's president during the Khmer Rouge reign, recently spoke about his role with Stéphanie Giry. Excerpts:
Giry: How did you become affiliated with the Khmer Rouge?
Khieu:In the 1960s, after editing a progressive paper, I became a congressman and, briefly, junior minister of Commerce. I supported Prince [Norodom] Sihanouk, who advocated Cambodia's neutrality between the United States and Vietnam. But in 1967, after I was accused of instigating a large peasant riot, I was forced to go into hiding in the countryside. The Khmer Rouge were already active there, mobilizing and organizing the peasantry. The movement seemed like the only path toward social progress.
Your Ph.D. thesis, written in 1959, advocated the democratic collectivization of the Cambodian countryside. What was its relationship to the policies of the Khmer Rouge?
No relationship. It was a very academic, unrealizable thesis. [Khmer Rouge leader] Pol Pot thought of me as a patriotic intellectual. A patriot, but intellectual—in other words, incapable of heading the revolution. When I told him in 1975 that evacuating Phnom Penh would alienate the people from the party, he compared me to Gorky, who, distressed by the famine in the Soviet Union in the 1920s, kept questioning Lenin.
What did you think of the many people who were dying of starvation in the countryside?
Isolated as I was at headquarters in Phnom Penh, I knew nothing of what was happening in the countryside. I knew that people who had been evacuated from Phnom Penh were suffering, but I didn't know they were reduced to starvation.
What did you know about the 17,000 or so people [mostly Khmer Rouge officials accused of treason] who were tortured and executed at the S-21 complex in Phnom Penh?
I did not know of S-21.
How could you have known so little, given your rank?
My title was purely honorific; I had no power to make or execute decisions. My main task was to maintain relations between the party and the prince. [Also,] the Khmer Rouge was the most secretive of communist movements—absolute partitioning, no horizontal communication. The few times I did go to the countryside, I was escorting the prince on tours of new infrastructure projects and I saw only what he was shown.
When did you finally realize all those people had died?
In late 1998, after Pol Pot's death and the collapse of the movement, when I finally had a chance to talk to former Khmer Rouge fighters and cadres.
What did you think?
I was overwhelmed. And then I read and thought a lot. Between 1975 and 1979, the population died mostly of starvation and disease, which existed even before the Khmer Rouge came to power. The countryside had been ravaged by U.S. bombings. Famine was threatening Phnom Penh, which overflowed with refugees. Even a report from the U.S. Agency for International Development predicted a food crisis. Such frightfully difficult conditions must have convinced Pol Pot to go beyond communist orthodoxy by evacuating Phnom Penh and abolishing money.
Do you have any regrets?
I regret that so many lives were lost for nothing. Had we at least advanced economically, the unhappiness would have been good for something.
If today Cambodia were more like China, the experience would have been worth it?
Frankly, yes.
What do you think of the tribunal that will judge crimes committed during the Khmer Rouge regime?
I did everything I could to remain honest toward my country and contribute to its development and independence, and now I'm accused of genocide. I don't understand. And I'm sure most Cambodians don't understand either.
14 comments:
Khieu Samphan, tu ne dois pas faire semblant concernant le génocide du peuple khmer, tu es au courant de tout, tu es tout simplement un monstre et un assassin du peuple khmer, et maintenant tu dois absolument payer ce que tu as commis comme erreurs graves.
Assassin !
-----------------------------------
Khieu Samphan, you should not make seeming concerning the genocide of the Khmer people, you know about all, you are quite simply a monster and an assassin of the Khmer people, and now you must absolutely pay what you made like serious errors.
Assassin!
Teukphnèk Khmer
Ah Khiev Samphann !!! You must be bornt from animal parents to answer these questions like that! You were the head of state of this killing regime. What kind of leadership if you do not know how your regime was being run? You was not an ignorance from the countryside. You have your degree as a doctor in economy. You were the lecturer od an university. Therefore, you knew very well how a leadership decision means to you. You were one of the top leadership. So all decisions made to the bottom hierachic of your governemnt were made by you and your associates Pol Pot, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary and Sihanouk. You have made one of the most arrogant speeches during your reign of terror that your regime was the most historic achievement by forcing all people to the countrysides. You have shame your nation, your ancestors and all your countrymen and women in Cambodian history by organising a killing regime into your own country and have killed millions of countrymen and women. True, you was also the reporters all evenement during the war and after the war to Sihanouk. You must be able to report accurately all the activities committed by your group to this killing Prince too. You must be from the same ideology of killing for being able to work together perfectly.
You loved your mother so much, you went so far as to taking her to the jungle with you...but do you know how many mothers that you had directly or indirectly killed Khieu Samphan???
09/10/06
AKnijaKhmer
Khieu I'm sure you also didn't know millions of teachers, students, former officers, businessmen etc.. were executed every night? Even dog doesn't believe you.
Fuck Ah Nor rourk , Ap pret Khieu Samphan, return my relatives,cambodian citizens, Khmer prosperity,schools, libraries.......Go to hell dont come back as human to suck human blood again Ah Pret.
err...you folks are jumping into a conclusions about people. you based your judgement of an individual from what you read from western scholars. i say before you begin cursing people for something you speculated they did, you ought to start looking at yourself in the mirror.
To Comrade Samphan Khiev
These are the following questions are human's simple basic natural instinct thoughts. Did you see any change in Phnom Penh streets when you were riding bicycle or driving between 1975-1979? Did it seem to be so unsual quiet during the period? had you asked yourself what was going on, where all the people? From your perpective,this scene of the capital of the Cambodia, was this normal or abnormal to you?
Mr. Khiev, you got Doctorate degree in stupid major as far i'm concern.
To Stéphanie Giry,
Do you have an interview statment with Ar Sdarch sihanouk about Khmer Rouge?
Everyone knows Ar Khiev Samphoan afraid to tell the truth. Khmers want to see Ar Sdarch Chker in UN court.
Hi 6.45: You must not one of the sufferers caused by these animal Khmer Rouge. After 1979, there were still 4 millions people who were the victims of the crimes committed by these crasy animal Khiev Samphann and Sihanouk. They cannot manipulate the history. All western schoolars have their record from all victims from these animal. If you know nothing, please shut up!!!!
Hey 6:45, what year were you born? You're probably born in 80s or after. You probably didn't even exsist when KR in control. Why don't you watch Cambodia Year Zero and draw the conclusion of your own.
^^ er. i know the facts, the parties involved, the numbers, i experienced the atrocity.
Why it questionally took Khieu Samphan too long, at 1998, to find out that almost two million innocent Khmers died during his Mighty Regime? He can intentionally lie to world, but not to the Khmer nation and especially to himself.... If he was really disagreed with his beloved brother #1's order, he shall be dead like his fellow comdreds, Hou Youn, Hu Nim, and many were ended up in S-21... Why was he still entirely denied the truth? He and his circle of gangsters were pretty well knew about S-21...This is absolutely shameful that all of these animals are still completely denied their criminal actions to their beloved innoncent Khmers!
My father dropped his gun and headed toward the country side, when my mother beg him to stop working for you. It's a shame how you brain wash people into believing that killing is the answer to all. Kymer Hitler!!!
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