Cambodia war crimes court concludes 2011 hearings

December 19, 2011
ABC Radio Australia

The UN-backed war crimes court in Cambodia has concluded its hearings for the year against three surviving leaders of the Khmer Rouge movement.

The accused deny charges of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity in relation to the deaths of an estimated two million people during Khmer Rouge rule between 1975 and 1979.

Three weeks of testimony have to date shown that the most senior surviving leader, Nuon Chea, is prepared to engage with the court even if his continued denials of what happened sound implausible to many.

Presenter: Robert Carmichael

Speaker: Nuon Chea, former Khmer Rouge leader; Youk Chhang, head of the Documentation Center of Cambodia; Khieu Samphan, former head of state

Click here to listen to the audio program (Windows Media)

CARMICHAEL: In essence the three aging defendants are accused of devising the policies that killed one in four of Cambodia's population.

During the first three weeks of evidence hearing Nuon Chea, who was Pol Pot's deputy for more than 40 years, has proved himself to be a good talker, even if many don't believe what he says.

As the tribunal concluded this year's hearings, Nuon Chea, for instance, denied that the Khmer Rouge had a policy to extinguish Buddhism, Cambodia's predominant religion.

It should be said that position flies in the face of the evidence. History shows the Khmer Rouge forcibly disrobed all monks, executing many in the process, and destroyed countless sacred relics and texts, and desecrated pagodas.

Nuon Chea has also continued to assert that Vietnam was mainly responsible for the crimes of the period.

Last week he said the defendants were not to blame for the forced evacuation of urban areas - a crime that constitutes a key element in the first stage of this trial, and which the prosecution contends caused thousands of deaths.

Nuon Chea said leaders at the provincial level took that decision.

In other words, says Nuon Chea, the man regarded as the Khmer Rouge's chief ideologue, the leaders did nothing wrong.

For many survivors this is unconvincing stuff, says Youk Chhang, who heads the Phnom Penh-based genocide research organization called the Documentation Center of Cambodia, or DC-Cam.

Youk Chhang says Nuon Chea certainly seems to believe what he is saying, and in an ideology that did so much damage.

CHHANG: That's why to me that the court it is so extremely important to put these people on trial, because if you allow such an ideology (to) stay alive, genocide can be repeated. Because we fail to understand and we fail to stop - and now we do understand that Nuon Chea hasn't changed at all - after all these years he hasn't changed a bit. He's still the same old comrade (of) 40 years ago, same with Khieu Samphan, same with Ieng Sary.

CARMICHAEL: The tribunal also heard last week from former foreign minister Ieng Sary, but he spoke only briefly to tell the judges that he would not respond to questioning.

The third defendant, former head of state Khieu Samphan, said he would not answer any questions at this stage, and in a written statement went on to claim that he exercised no power at all.

Khieu Samphan said Pol Pot appointed him to positions that he wasn't even aware of:

SAMPHAN: That is deputy prime minister, minister of defence of nothing, or the military commander of nothing.

CARMICHAEL: Each day's proceedings have been attended by hundreds of people. Among them have been many students, all of whom are far too young to have experienced life under the Khmer Rouge.

Youk Chhang, who survived the Khmer Rouge's rule, says he notices that Nuon Chea is careful to tailor his message to different audiences.

CHHANG: What worries me is that when there is a lot of young audience then all we heard from Nuon Chea and the others (are) all good things about the Khmer Rouge. You know ideology is very beautiful, it's very pure, but he said nothing about the consequences. And when young people will not dare to experience, to witness, it's kind of hard to capture unless they (are) properly supervised by their teachers, by instructors during the process or follow-up discussion about what the defendant is talking about.

CARMICHAEL: Youk Chhang believes young Cambodians see this testimony in a different light to the older generation.

CHHANG: It's a different perception because you know victims, when you have the experience, you know, you reflect differently because you were there. Most of the people that we brought to attend the trial - the villagers - no one believed what Nuon Chea had to say. They say: "Well we heard this before, but we were there, they killed my wife, they killed my kids, they separated me. The Khmer Rouge (are) bad people." But for young people when they don't have life experience - and we don't want them to have such experience, because it's horrible - it requires a proper instruction to discuss, to debate.

CARMICHAEL: The case of the surviving leaders originally had four defendants, but last month the court ruled that former social affairs minister Ieng Thirith was unfit for trial due to dementia and ordered her release.

However the prosecution appealed that decision. Last week the tribunal's highest body agreed with the prosecution and ordered Ieng Thirith to remain in custody for six months to see whether her dementia improves with medical treatment.

The trial of the three other defendants is scheduled to resume in January.