Fighting to be remembered

A SURVIVOR: Sophal Stagg tours the Khmer Rouge Tribunal compound in Cambodia. A survivor of the mass killings in that country in the 1970s, she now works to educate the public there about the nation's grim history. (Photo by Tracey Shelton)
Sophal Stagg points toward holding cells during a tour of the Khmer Rouge Tribunal compound in Cambodia. (Photo by Tracey Shelton)
THE COURTROOM: Millions of dollars have been spent - and misspent - for the trial of Khmer Rouge leaders. (Photo by Tracey Shelton)

February 10, 2008
By Elena Lesley, Times Staff Writer
St Petersburg Times (Florida, USA)

Sophal Stagg stopped in front of the villa built to house former leaders of the brutal Khmer Rouge regime and yanked a long weed from the ground. - "This is what I ate to survive," she explained to fellow members of a group touring the Khmer Rouge Tribunal compound in Cambodia. "I thanked God I had this."

They listened quietly as Stagg explained how she sneaked weeds, mice and bugs into the watery rice porridge that was her only sustenance under Pol Pot's notorious regime.

"And these five criminals are living in a luxury house," she continued, angrily pointing toward the villa where five former leaders wait to be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. "They have three meals a day - their choice - TV, one even has a special toilet. What kind of justice is this?"

Decades have passed since the fall of the Khmer Rouge. Stagg, who now lives in Palm Harbor and goes by "Sophie," thought she and other survivors would never see justice. Yet even though a United Nations-backed tribunal is set to try key leaders this year, she is still unsure what effect it will have on her home country.

Stagg distributes goods in Cambodia every year as part of her work for the Southeast Asian Children's Mercy Fund, the charity organization she founded. But this January marked her first visit to the tribunal complex. Construction on land outside of Phnom Penh, the country's capital city, started several years ago.

In the past, Stagg always bypassed the site. She thought the government would never allow the tribunal to happen and she didn't want to be disappointed.

But now that the country appears determined to try Pol Pot's henchmen, Stagg still has misgivings.

"I can't believe the world has poured so much money into this," she said, referring to tribunal funding she believes has been misused. "It's like an elaborate stage for a two-minute show. Are the international donors blind?"

Stagg said she was shocked by the number of sleek buildings constructed especially for the trials, the inflated salaries of tribunal staff and the "pampering" of defendants.

Each of the aging leaders has a personal doctor. A bulletproof Land Cruiser transports them the 50 yards from their villa to the courthouse, she said.

"I got very sarcastic on the tour," she said with a wry smile. "I said I was surprised they didn't have a red carpet for the Land Cruiser."

After visiting the compound, Stagg said she is more convinced than ever that many involved in the tribunal are "trying to drag it on as long as they can, suck out as much money as possible."

She isn't the first to notice the perceived waste. Allegations of corruption, mismanagement and political interference have long plagued the tribunal.

Negotiations for a court to try leaders of the Khmer Rouge regime, which is responsible for the deaths of an estimated 1.7-million Cambodians from 1975 to 1979, got off to a slow start in 1997.

Though Pol Pot died of natural causes in 1998, the United Nations and Cambodian government reached an agreement in 2003 outlining a process to try other Khmer Rouge figures.

Fundraising efforts lagged for years, but in July 2006, Cambodian and foreign judges were finally sworn in. A year later, prosecutors submitted a list of suspects to tribunal judges and since that time five people have been taken into custody.

But no one has stood trial, and the tribunal has eaten up most of its $56.3-million budget. Organizers are lobbying for more funding. And they have a good case.

"It is very, very important to put these people on trial as an example to other dictators," said Paul Chuk, a Pinellas Park resident who lost both his parents to the Khmer Rouge. "You cannot abuse people this way and get away with it."

But with all the emphasis on the trappings of justice, Stagg worries the message may not get through to actual Cambodians. She'd like to see less money squandered on construction and salaries, and more devoted to educating the public.

Cambodian schools teach little about the Khmer Rouge regime, and many who lived through it are too traumatized to discuss their experiences, Stagg said. As a result, most young Cambodians know strikingly little about that period.

"Some young people don't even believe it happened," she said.

The lack of information is especially disturbing to Stagg, who has spent much of the past decade trying to raise awareness about the Khmer Rouge. Her memoir, Hear me now: Tragedy in Cambodia, is part of the curriculum in many local schools, and she has given numerous lectures about the Cambodian holocaust.

"I fight to teach about this in American schools," she said. "But I can't believe I have to do it in my own back yard, in Cambodia."

Yet she is now considering doing just that. While she has long brought much-needed goods to the country, Stagg now hopes to raise money for books and a Khmer Rouge curriculum.

The tribunal, she fears, won't be enough.

"They say they want to leave a legacy, but what kind of legacy is that?" she asked. "There will be no justice without education."

Elena Lesley can be reached at elesley@sptimes.com or 727 445-4167.

To learn more

For more about the Southeast Asian Children's Mercy Fund, visit www.Cambodiamercyfund.org

KR survivor Sophal Leng Stagg: Execute those KR leaders

Sophal Leng in 1980

Sophal Leng Stagg

KR memoir writer says leaders should be executed
Phnom Penh Post, Issue 17 / 02, January 24 - February 7, 2008

Sophal Leng Stagg believes she is among the luckiest of Khmer Rouge survivors. Despite her father being a former police investigator for the Lon Nol regime, her parents and her seven brothers and sisters all survived the Killing Fields. To her this is a miracle since she has never met another family that “managed to stay intact.” The family immigrated to the US in 1980 and in 1985, Stagg, pregnant with her first child, began to write her book Hear Me Now, a platform she uses to lecture in schools throughout the United States. The popularity of the book led to the funding of the Southeast Asian Children’s Mercy Fund, which she established with her American husband William Stagg. The foundation provides assistance and training to poor families in the region and includes an “adopt a family project” that has inspired many Americans to help. On a visit to Cambodia this month, Stagg spoke to the Post’s Tracey Shelton about her childhood under the KR, her teaching and her desire for the Khmer Rouge tribunal to get on with trials and find the defendants guilty. She says: "They should be executed right away."

What made you decide to write the book?
My children. Once it was published it became a tool to educate other American kids and to raise money to help the people of Cambodia – I’m very proud of that.

You are very passionate about the need for Khmer Rouge history to be incorporated into Cambodian school curriculum. Why is this so important to you?
Writing the book and talking in the schools became a form of healing for me. I want to pass that on to Khmer people. There has been no education on the genocide in Cambodian schools for 15 years – these kids don’t even believe their grandmothers’ stories anymore. I work very hard in the US to educate American kids so the people that suffered are not forgotten. It makes me upset that Khmer kids have forgotten. Education will open up dialogue between the generations. Teach the children in school and the whole country can get therapy.

What do you remember about the KR period?
I was nine years old on April 17, 1975 when the KR took over. I remember the soldiers riding on tanks and marching through the streets, but my mother would not let me watch. A bullhorn announcement on every street corner announced that we had to leave by nightfall because the Americans were going to bomb the city. We were told to bring just enough clothes for three days as once the city was cleared up we could return to our homes. I remember my mother trying to go to the market for food supplies but the city was in chaos. By 4pm the announcements began to show intense force and anger. “You must leave now or we will consider you the resistance and you will be shot.” There was only one road to leave by. We were wedged in the crowd and everyone was pushing. Soldiers lined the roadsides shooting into the air telling us to move faster but it was impossible. There was a frightening sad fear in everyone. I looked back to see the city on fire. By that time I had the sense that I would never return home.

How did your family manage to survive?
My brother and father were military. As we walked my mother whispered to us not to tell anyone what they did. She told me to say my father was a taxi driver and to speak in lower class terms so no one would know I was educated. She said if I did not adapt, if did not change, they were going to kill my father. I understood enough to change my way faster than other people. I don’t know how she got that information but this saved my family.

We walked to Kampong Cham. There were pro-Khmer Rouge signs on every house. The old people despised us! Even the children. They believed the new people had exploited them. They blamed us for everything – their hard lives, their fathers having to fight in the jungle – literally everything from A-Z. Now they had privileges and power over the educated. It was so hard to hold my tongue. The KR soldiers had taken all our valuables so they were wearing our watches but they didn’t know how to read the time. So many times I wanted to scream at them, “You’re a bunch of morons! I’m better than you.”

Last week you went to the Khmer Rouge courts. Do you think the trials will bring some justice and satisfaction to the victims?
I think the trials should be short. I’m all for the trials but the most important thing is educating the kids. Money and time needs to go into that. Enough money spent on this already. Everyone knows they are guilty. They should be executed right away. If they were executed on national TV, maybe that could provide some satisfaction.

What do you think would happen if one of the defendants was found not guilty?
A riot. And I would be right there among them. The anger is buried deep but it is there – the pain people suffered won’t go away. I thought I was dealing with it just fine. Then I saw the courts – the money they are spending, the way they treat the defendants – if I had fangs they would have come out. It’s ludicrous! Where were international standards in the way they treated us. We were treated like animals. A doctor each, three meals a day, Western toilets at their request – they’re treated like royalty. It sends the wrong message. Normal Cambodians that live outside that gate aren’t living that way.

How much of an impact do you feel the Khmer Rouge reign has had on Cambodian society today?
Every place I look – in the eyes of every person – the KR have left behind a trace. In everything I see the damage. What have they done to their people? Crippled them. Instilled fear and dishonesty. The brave and the educated are dead, and a lot died along with them. During my first trip back in 2000, I asked my mother why did people always lie and cheat like this. I felt like all the good people had died. They taught us to lie and cheat. We were starving constantly. We were forced to become thieves, liars. It seems like many Cambodian people lost themselves back then and they never got their souls back. Like a dog, when you are pushed into a corner you bite back. The KR instilled these things in people and now they are trapped. All this goodness has been lost. Corruption and chaos are the legacy they have left behind.

How do you see the future for Cambodia?
I think the government is trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with. But how can you cap greed in a human being?

And Reconciliation?
The international community has put their money in the wrong place – education is equally if not more important than the trials. Kids should have been educated about what happened to their father. Now they need to be educated about who killed their grandfather. Is it going to be, “they killed my great grandfather” before you start educating these kids! By then it will be too late. It will just be history for them.