Prof Keng Vannsak (Photo: RFA)
Dr Long Siem (Photo: RFA)
Dr Michel Tranet (Photo: RFA)By Mayarith
Radio Free Asia
Translated from Khmer by Heng Soy
One historian, one literature specialist, along with Prof. Keng Vannsak have visited the diverging opinions regarding Jayavarman VII, the historical Khmer king.
The debate which took place on Saturday on RFA’s program “Listerners forum,” was organized after criticisms were leveled against Prof Keng Vannsak who raised the issue that King Jayavarman VII – whom most Cambodians consider as a strong and exemplary king for Cambodians of all generations – was of Cham origin, and that he forced people to perform hard labor, as well as giving away the Cambodian land of Sukothai to the former Siam.
The debate brought together the famous Dr Michel Tranet, and Dr Long Siem.
Prof Keng Vannsak expresses his regret when he learnt that the result of his research based on the documents he owns, causes a lot of angry reaction from people.
In clarifying his point on the people’s angry reaction, Prof Keng Vannsak said by telephone from France: “… I really regret it because I do not want to stir this. All the issues I have heard regarding the sculptures of Javarman VII, be they intact or mutilated, they all originated from my research…”
In an earlier interview with RFA, Prof Keng Vannsak claimed that he has an original copy of a document which he kept, that provides the story of King Jayavarman VII.
During the debate, Dr Michel Tranet, a social science expert, and Dr Long Siem, an expert in Cambodian stone inscriptions, said that their research did not turn up any of the claims made by Prof Keng Vannsak.
Michel Tranet said: “If we base ourselves on our history noted on the stone inscriptions we have, there are reports detailing the exceptional character of the king [Jayavarnan VII] who not only have all the Buddhist compassion towards the people of that time, but the king is also the builder of our Cambodia following the war, and bring back Cambodia’s glory.”
Long Siem added: “During his era, or shortly after his reign, people pay respect to him as an equal to Buddha. That is why we find a technical word: “Chey-puth” [Chey=Jaya=Victory, Puth=Buddha], that’s the first point. Secondly, the sculptures in Bayon are a permanent … exposition of extraordinary pictures representing the actual daily life of people…”
The debate which lasted 45 minutes, revisited the case of King Jayavarman VII, but it did not examine which view is right and which one is wrong because of technical phone line difficulties linking Cambodia, and the limited air time available.
The debate which took place on Saturday on RFA’s program “Listerners forum,” was organized after criticisms were leveled against Prof Keng Vannsak who raised the issue that King Jayavarman VII – whom most Cambodians consider as a strong and exemplary king for Cambodians of all generations – was of Cham origin, and that he forced people to perform hard labor, as well as giving away the Cambodian land of Sukothai to the former Siam.
The debate brought together the famous Dr Michel Tranet, and Dr Long Siem.
Prof Keng Vannsak expresses his regret when he learnt that the result of his research based on the documents he owns, causes a lot of angry reaction from people.
In clarifying his point on the people’s angry reaction, Prof Keng Vannsak said by telephone from France: “… I really regret it because I do not want to stir this. All the issues I have heard regarding the sculptures of Javarman VII, be they intact or mutilated, they all originated from my research…”
In an earlier interview with RFA, Prof Keng Vannsak claimed that he has an original copy of a document which he kept, that provides the story of King Jayavarman VII.
During the debate, Dr Michel Tranet, a social science expert, and Dr Long Siem, an expert in Cambodian stone inscriptions, said that their research did not turn up any of the claims made by Prof Keng Vannsak.
Michel Tranet said: “If we base ourselves on our history noted on the stone inscriptions we have, there are reports detailing the exceptional character of the king [Jayavarnan VII] who not only have all the Buddhist compassion towards the people of that time, but the king is also the builder of our Cambodia following the war, and bring back Cambodia’s glory.”
Long Siem added: “During his era, or shortly after his reign, people pay respect to him as an equal to Buddha. That is why we find a technical word: “Chey-puth” [Chey=Jaya=Victory, Puth=Buddha], that’s the first point. Secondly, the sculptures in Bayon are a permanent … exposition of extraordinary pictures representing the actual daily life of people…”
The debate which lasted 45 minutes, revisited the case of King Jayavarman VII, but it did not examine which view is right and which one is wrong because of technical phone line difficulties linking Cambodia, and the limited air time available.
31 comments:
I am Khmer and proud to be one. love k....
J7 say that "His subjects'suffering is his" and with this statement is not matched with Keng Vansak's claim. Stop wasting your unbased speech.
It was a very good idea to bring the experts together, but regrettably the discussion was poorly organised and conducted. The facilitator must have been too nervous. The issues addressed could habe been more efficiently covered.
But thanks to RFA for raising such controversial issues.
SiS
I felt very sad to see all of the very old Cambodian historians and old academic are fighting to each other while the majority of our Cambodian people are crying of injustice in land robbings, uncontrolable corruptions, unsecured society, young Cambodian women were being sold to foreign countries for prostitution etc.. and etc.. What benefit to our academic community for this dogfighting? THey should have shared their knowledges and solved their different at the academic level instead of fighting in the public. What important of this issue to an ordinary people who just want to survive from day to day to hear one group to say Jayvarman was a good King and another group to say that Jayvarman was a bad King? I urge our academic community to work in a prestige style and stop repeating this kind of dogfighting which will ruine our academic pride. If you continue to debate this kind of issue again, Dr Hun Sen, Dr Men Sam An, Dr Mong Rithy, Dr, Sok Kong, Dr Ly Yong Phat etc.. and etc.. will jump in with their greatest ideas, then, all our young generation will lost completely all their hope in studying from you all.
2:41 it is natural for scholars to debate. That is how they resolve history or mystery. Let scholars be scholars for the sake that they may find truth to impart to our generation before they leave. Don't get them in a mess of politics and get targeted like they did in KR time.
So let the scholars of politics, the activist of politics, do their jobs, and let the scholars of academics do their job. We all have a role and function in our society.
I agree with Anon@2:56AM. It's the timing of it all that irks me just a bit. Thank you for sharing.
I agree that mostly Cambodian academic groups are debating or arguing basically sub-important issues. Sometime it can stir division among Khmer nationals also. They should do research or debate about past Den Diem or present Dor Mouy policy of Vietnam. They have integrated many things to swallow and enchroach Cambodia. We have to understand that there are many local state leaders are Vietnamese personnels and spies. If you could do research, go and survey that how many ethical Vietnam citizens are positioning as villigers leader, municipal leaders, provincial officers and governmental figures. Also including Vietnamese armforce division which can be dangerious to our stability.
Vietnam has never neglected in any minute of their thought to influence and control Cambodia.
While Vietnamese academic pundits are meeting, debating and planning to take over Cambodia, we are Cambodian scholars debate only the controversial issues to stir internal dispute and division.
Please, wake up all Khmer scholars don't be so serious or hot in sub-interesting things in Cambodia.
Help to do research and survey the primary hot issues such as corruption, unemployments, land grabbing, unreliable court, unaccurate education curriculum, Vietnamese strategies beneath Khmer carpet, poverty, injustic and youth gange...etc
Do something valuable bring real reputation to you all!
Khmer Young
Hello Young Khmer! I am poster 2.31AM. I am supporting your ideas 100%. Since I have an immigrant in a overseas country, I have particiapted many debates, I haven't seen their scholars debating their findings in public like this. Offcourse they can debate their differents findings but but at their academic level. This kind of debate organised by RFA is very dangerous to destroy our academic prestige and pride. We need to have only one farmer from the public to yelt to them to stop, they will all lose their face. All their effort to earn their Doctor degree will come into an end with one ignorance come in to tell them enough is enough. We are very hungry, we have lost all our land to vietnam. What the hell you are doing in here !!!!
hi every one,from now on let's writte our history so we all nkow what the true is...BE TRUE TO YOURSELF.
They called me an :" Extremist ".
This my view on the debate.
I talked to Laukta Kheng Vannsak sometime last year on the phone.He told me a part of Khmer-History on Jayavarman 7...I listened and I felt if his though was going to the public that would causing the big explosion between Khmers...
.....Recently RFA of Khmer service broacasting was in the trouble with
Sok Serei's accident case.
We understand that something wrong & dark plot was behind the scene...
Lord Kem Sos,Samborin they tried to manupulated the situation by set up a new "HOT ISSUE"---->Jayavarman7....a lot of people thanks RFA to bring it up and forget Sok Serei'case...Wow what's a smart move.Congratulation Samakmith Samborin !You're the best man of Provocation to break Khmer.Well done.
Last time he tried to bring Ex senator Chhang Son to hit back with
the Sihanouk's comment.
Son Soubert & his Half Sister.
Jayavarman was in the past we can debate at any time when Cambodia is becoming a FREE CAMBODIA again !
Don't we all thing Yuon Laugh behind to see us who figh like Dog & Cat,do we ?
CHeers,
Bun Heang Ung
Old Youn's trategy is still working to put Khmer fight among ourselve until no Khmer is living in its Land.
And again Khmer-Scholars are in their trap again ! to fight for what ?
We all try to forget that they are
4 Millions of Youn illegal immegrants live in Cambodia...and more to come.
Dear Khmer Young,
I love your litle photo of Jayavarman 7.It's nice & cute.
Could you teach me how to post it in KI's comment.Thanks.
No. I disagree with all of you. Do you think that any nation survive by one concentration alone? Please wake up from this narrowed minded thinking. If you want to debate about nationalist, or independence, you can do it. Don't get mad at scholars who debate subjects of their field. If you want to hear debate on your issues find scholar of that subject. We need to be diverse in our sastras, and knowledge. No one survive on bread alone, no country can survive without its culture even if it is completely independent, if it does not know where it come from, what is the worth of that?
Scholars of history debate history, scholars of border debate border, (Seng Pengse, Hok Savan etc.) and Scholars of law debate law, (Bora Touch etc.).
As for going into the subject of Mr. Sok Serei's incident goes, should RFA stay on one subject for pleasing of a few minority? A journalist's report is bring into light things that are hidden and bring awareness to public of such things. It is their right to discuss any issue and speak about any issue. Sok Serei cannot stay on RFA subject for every show can it?
SO in conclusion, I implore all Khmer, old and young, contribute in your own way, maybe you are intelligent in politic, maybe your are intelligent in history, maybe you are intelligent in law, but you have to be open minded and see that Cambodia needs all those different scholars of diverse knowledge.
Jei Yo Prates Khmer
I don’t think that is a good idea for RFA to give the antenna just to one person, to expose his theory on Khmer history. In stead of a real debate from the beginning on certain points of our past, RFA allowed Mr. Keng Vannsak to say whatever he wanted, as if he had all the truth with him. If Mr. Vannsak had new idea on Cambodian history, he should ask RFA to invite him for an interview on the subject and RFA should follow suite with a debate by inviting others historians interested on that subject to participate.
That said, thank you anyway to RFA for stirring interests among our Khmer nationals for our history. My congratulations to Touch Bora for making good points by demonstrating clearly that Mr. Vannsak assertions on King Jayavarmann VII are without solid bases. In history, one should be very careful in interpretations. For Angkor periods, the main sources of that part of the Khmer history are only the foundation inscriptions found at the temple sites and the archives in China left by different Chinese visitors to Cambodia of that period. They are completed with archeological research with helps from modern technologies. Other sources should be considered only for comparisons purposes. Sources like Aeksar Mahaboroh Khmaer (1969), or “Preah Reach Pongsada Khmer” can only be used with great prudence, since they are often copied from unknown sources that we can not verify. Certainly we have a lot of writings and interpretations by Khmer and Western scholars alike. Researchers can make citations, but they should have constantly in mind that they are second hand sources, or theories or interpretations only. All historians need to be honest to present their findings as their “opinions” and not the “truth”. They should be less affirmative or having more reservations. That was the problems with Mr. Vannsak.
KHMENG WAT KHNONG SROK
PLEASE KHMER HISTORY TO CAMBODIAN LIVING INSIDE THE COUNTRY...
WE ARE MUCH BETTER EDUCATED THAN THE PRETENDED ONE YOU ARE...
STAY WHERE YOU ARE... CONTINUE TO BARK IF YOU WANT.
BUT CAMBODIA BELONGS TO CAMBODIAN INSIDE THE COUNTRY... FREE FROM KHMER YANKEE AND KHMER THIEU KY AND KHMER BEAST OVERSEAS...
LORD BUDDHA FORGIVES ME...! THEY MERIT TO BE TREATED LIKE ANIMALS.
KHMENG WAT KHNONG SROK
Khmeng watt khong srok i don't know where you comming from.you should learn more about yourself if you are a real cambodian you better stop killing and stealing people land.
I AM LUCKY TO LIVE HERE SO I DON'T NEED TO KISS ASS LIKE YOU KHMENG WATT KHNONG SRORK.BE YOURSELF GO TO FIND A RIGHT TEMPLE SO YOU CAN HELP PEOPLE LIKE BUDDHA.
Hello Bun Heang!! I support you 100% on this issue. At present, our ennemies are very happy to see our so-called schollars are fighting to each others. In English term, this kind of fighting , they called dogfighting. When China was facing with Japanese invasion, all Chinese from both Kuok Meng Tang and Communist are joining hands to get ridge to Japanese. Now, our small Cambodia is being invaded by Vietnamese influence, our paople are crying for their stolen lands, our scollars are fighting for a history which has passed 1000 years ago. Who will win? Who has the most credible evidence? Noone. We are all still guessing isn't it? What a waste of time and Cambodian academic pride !!!! I am the poster 2.31AM.
lolzz everytime i visit KI , it's always funny to see people fighting .. hahaha you guys got no life or what ?? ahaha lolzz.
There has been a stange confusion among Cambodians about their appreciation of the work of their past kings. They idolise Angkor Wat and use it as the symbol of their nation on their flag. Yet not many know and worship its builder, Yasovarman II. Some have mentioned its builder was Jayavarman VII, and I have heard it on Khmer radio. Instead Cambodians worship Jayavarman VII as their greatest king. And they know that that king was a Buddhist. But they don't know which denomination his Buddhism was. Actually, it was Mahayana Buddhism. Perhaps, this denomination of Buddhism helped Cambodia to be become a great empire? Perhaps, the other denomination of Buddhism, Hinayana, has brought about and sustained the decline of the Cambodian nation? Why have not Cambodian people and scholars talked about this? Perhaps such talks would expose the weaknesses of Hinayana Budhism and weaken the authority of Hinayana Buddhist clergy?
Anyway, Buddha was a dumb fool. Why should he be so much worshipped around the world? He was born to rule. He had everytthing, power, women to riches. How come he abandoned all this material comfort and power, and gave up everthing to become a miserable poor. Look at these days nobody is that dumb fool. Everybody grab and grab everything they can lay their hands on: power, women and riches - and they are not sated and conti9nue to want more and more. People known to be corrupt continue to swear before Buddhist and Buddha in Buddhist (more Hindu than Buddhist)rituals that what they offer to the Buddhist monks has came about honestely and has been earned honestly and in an honest way (koet loeng doy thor, ban mork doy thor, prokob doy thor). And they claim they are Buddhist!!!
LAO Mong Hay, Hong Kong.
There has been a stange confusion among Cambodians about their appreciation of the work of their past kings. They idolise Angkor Wat and use it as the symbol of their nation on their flag. Yet not many know and worship its builder, Yasovarman II. Some have mentioned its builder was Jayavarman VII, and I have heard it on Khmer radio. Instead Cambodians worship Jayavarman VII as their greatest king. And they know that that king was a Buddhist. But they don't know which denomination his Buddhism was. Actually, it was Mahayana Buddhism. Perhaps, this denomination of Buddhism helped Cambodia to be become a great empire? Perhaps, the other denomination of Buddhism, Hinayana, has brought about and sustained the decline of the Cambodian nation? Why have not Cambodian people and scholars talked about this? Perhaps such talks would expose the weaknesses of Hinayana Budhism and weaken the authority of Hinayana Buddhist clergy?
Anyway, Buddha was a dumb fool. Why should he be so much worshipped around the world? He was born to rule. He had everytthing, power, women to riches. How come he abandoned all this material comfort and power, and gave up everthing to become a miserable poor. Look at these days nobody is that dumb fool. Everybody grab and grab everything they can lay their hands on: power, women and riches - and they are not sated and conti9nue to want more and more. People known to be corrupt continue to swear before Buddhist and Buddha in Buddhist (more Hindu than Buddhist)rituals that what they offer to the Buddhist monks has came about honestely and has been earned honestly and in an honest way (koet loeng doy thor, ban mork doy thor, prokob doy thor). And they claim they are Buddhist!!!
LAO Mong Hay, Hong Kong.
Sacravatoon, you should edite your profile and like icon picture in your profile. I hope this can help.
Responding to our fan here, I mean it is still important for specific expert of our pundit, but it is not primary concern and interest for current situation in Cambodia.
Thanks
Dear All,
Now it's not a time to say who is right and who is wrong!! Just wait till a FREE CAMBODIA is existed, then you will see all the truth.
One of my words (regarding stone transcrips only) for you is that,
from the 14th century till now - no body taught the Khmer-ancient language to next generations.
Those who claimed that they can read or they refer to this and that stone transcripts are being under suspicions.
You can take a look on a Dictionary of Archeology by Dr Long Siem in any page, then you will realise that we could not understand what was/were the advice/messages by our ancestors, ?why, [[they cannot read!!!!!!!!]],
Do you think that all current doctors either French and Khmer can read such ancient scripts.
Please consider!!
Sincrely,
Sromol
To 2:31 and others alike,
I understand that the historical issue and the poverty are a separate issue. They cannot be linked together during a single debate, like the one hosted by Radio Free Asia. And I believe that they are Khmer issues that are belong to every Khmer, it doesn't matter where they live.
The outcome of that debate at least turned out to be a cofrimation about who was J7. We can say that Keng Van Sak's arguments could be without sufficient references. It doesn't mean that he was wrong either because it is academic research. It happened! As an academic person, he might go back to start his research again. That is the positive approach to encourage the academics. I am neither accusing him of confusing the publics.
What is bothering me is about Radio Free Asia who has been hosting Q&A with Keng Van Sak for a while without thorough consideration of impacts from that show. The big question is how Radio Free Asia in the past allowed merely K.V.Sak to attend in that program. How is Radio Free Asia so sure that a single source is always right?
While blaming K.V.Sak alone can be unfair, Radio Free Asia should be shared this responsibility also.
Dear 11:44AM, what you have said are very understundable. What we are saying is this kind of debate is not appropriated at present in the open public. Timing is wrong. Cambodia is full of Vietcong killers running around every where. This debate will create an atmosphere of division among Nationalist. Those who have lost their face will not come out and help Cambodia to fight for full independent and free our Nation from Sdech Kan Kboat Cheat !!!
why everyone is so fuzzy about Mr. Vansak's comments on his findings. Dont we all think that the construction of such magnitude by J7 came without a price ? this is normal in academic discussion, just the Khmers are too proud about their past and continue to live in the past rather than the present. Past glory in untouchable for the Khmers. Come on!!!!!!! Let look and see the world with more liberal view! Stop pointing fingure at the Yuan or Siems and blame them for misfortune of Cambodia! Look at ourselves first. Do we, each of you guys, treat your own fellow Khmers properly ? Look at the police at Poi Pet border, they treat our own khmers laborers crossing to work in Thailand worse than animals, then we all blame the Thai for looking down on the Khmers !!! what a stupid hypocrit! [From Khmer Peasant]
Dear 1:44pm,
I am nothing against your argument, said the debate was not in the right time. I understand that you have put the current situaion as a priority. I am with you. We both sound natinalist the same. However, Cambodia has many problems need to be addressed asap. I would suggest that all Khmers can share tasks and solve them separately.
I can't offer my comments concerning KVS's assertions (re: King Jayawaraman VII), b/c I don't know the history of Cambodia well. I'm learning and I will share with you all later.
I can't offer my comments concerning KVS's assertions (re: King Jayawaraman VII), b/c I don't know the history of Cambodia well. I'm learning and I will share with you all later.
Michet TRANET is a royalist and is a royal historian but he doesn't know anything about Cambodia. What surprise!!!
Mr LON SEAM is really a literature specialist of reading, translating Baley Sangskrit letters on the wall of Angkor but he lacks of research-documents.
Mr Prof Dr KENG VAN SAK is really intellectual. He analyzes, he researchs the evolution of Cambodia and he concludes it well, logically. What a Cambodia great intellectual!!!
We support the conclusion of Prf Dr KENG VAN SAK and partly that of Dr LONG SEAM
nice to be here discussing with you...
well, in my point of views, we are now like dogfighting.
I don't think that Dr Keng Vansak is wrong, of course he has right to say that.
Do not think that he is right or wrong, but let's think about the cause and reason why he said?
Why don't we try to learn about our histories?
So we are going to find the ways to solve what he said.
Oh yeah, I can say that it's just a very small problem among other big problems now happening in Srok Khmer, reduce the corruptions, how to make a better living and fight again poverty, border problems and uncountable illegal Vietnames immigration....
Yeah, still many many things that we should think about, not only just a small problemនេះទេ។ ក្រោកឡើងកូនខ្មែរ!
Post a Comment