BORDER DISPUTE
Govt quick to withdraw allegation
Defence spokesman's claim that Cambodia marked boundary unilaterally denied
January 26, 2008
The Nation (Thailand)
"if [Cambodia and Thailand] failed to settle boundary disputes, Unesco might reject the listing proposal [for Preah Vihear as a World Heritage Site]" - Adul Vichianchareon, Thailand's National World Heritage Committee chairmanThe Defence Ministry yesterday rushed to retract statements made by a spokesman that Cambodia had "made up" history in a bid to claim the Hindu temple of Preah Vihear for Phnom Penh's unilateral benefit.
Top brass were urgently calling counterparts across the border yesterday to clarify statements made on Thursday by ministry spokesman Lt-General Pichsanu Puchakarn.
Preah Vihear is a sensitive issue between Thailand and Cambodia. It heated up early last year, when Thailand blocked Phnom Penh's attempt to list it as a United Nations World Heritage site. Bangkok asserted Cambodian listing documentation claimed land in "overlapping areas".
The International Court of Justice ruled in June 1962 that the temple belonged to Cambodia, but access to the site is mainly via Thailand. Phnom Penh has recognised some overlapping areas, according an official at the Thai Foreign Ministry.
The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (Unesco) agreed at a meeting in New Zealand in June last year to consider the heritage listing. It suggested Thailand and Cambodia jointly develop the site and agree on boundaries before a decision.
Both countries concurred.
The matter was at the heart of discussions between Thai Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram and his counterpart Hor Namhong in Phnom Penh in December.
Cambodia praised Thailand for its offer of technical assistance in the restoration and maintenance of the ancient site.
The military statement on Thursday was a surprise. Pichsanu said Cambodia had created a new boundary in order to claim sovereignty of the entire area and was campaigning for international support for this.
He condemned Cambodia and demanded diplomats lodge an official protest with Phnom Penh.
Yesterday the ministry changed its tune. Supreme Command civil-affairs chief Lt-General Plangkul Klahan and Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said the previous day's statement was incorrect.
Anti-Thai sentiment is quick to emerge in Cambodia. Rioters set fire to the embassy in Phnom Penh in January 2003.
Tharit said yesterday Thailand and Cambodia had agreed in 2000 to a joint boundary committee. No changes in the environment of the area will be made before boundary demarcation. "Both countries continue dialogue to find the best solution to listing the area as a World Heritage site," he said.
Thailand's National World Heritage Committee chairman, Adul Vichianchareon, said that if they failed to settle boundary disputes, Unesco might reject the listing proposal.
22 comments:
"...NOW THE THAI NEEDS TO IMPOSE ECONOMIC WARFARE BY DISINVEST IN CAMBODIA AND CLOSE THE BORDER -- IF MUTUAL COOPERATION BETWEEN THE TWO NATIONS IS NOT ATTAINED..."
FUCK OFF 5:00PM!!!!!!!!!!
FUCK OFF YOUR BULLSHIT INVESTMENT IN YOUR OWN LAND. FUCK YOUR MOTHER IN YOUR OWN LAND, DON'T COME TO US.
I am pretty sure Cambodian can live without Thailand economic pouring into Cambodia. So how do you think that we can live without Thai back then. We don't need no bullshit Thai craps. Get lost! We will kick you ass and send you back to Yunan. Get out of Khmer lands. Khmer Surin is our brothers they will stab you if you think you can dear to wage war on us. This time you will be rebeled from the inside of Thailand. Look at Thai in the south the Muslim will fight you hard to get independent. You damn thief!
LOL, military might? Since when Thai control other country(s).
Thai can't even fight with the Khmer Rough. If Khmer Rough comes back they will kick you dumb ass.
Get out of Khmer lands. We don't you in Cambodia. We will win if you think you can wage war on us. Khmer all the way and only Khmer!
Listing Preah Vihear with UNESCO world heritage will benefit THAI in long term despite the negative reaction from THAI military recently. After they sat down to rethink, they come to conclude that THAI will gain benefit in long term.
After all THAI military has helped to find a good secure long term solution for THAILAND.
No F-way! Preah Vihear is solely belong to the Khmer. We don't need to join or share this with them. Believe me HUN SEN won't let that happens. You can keep dreaming just like we want all Khmer lands back from Thailand and Vietnam. Soon or later they will belong to Khmer regardless. Khmer will win!
We have got enough pain for losing north-western and southern of Cambodia like sorin and Kampuchea krom.Therefore, we won't let you-damn siam nation do what you siam used to do in the past. You siam thief must wash your mouth before saying something about Khmer. If you thief siam don't know your history or don't know where you came from, go to Khmer kindergarten because we still have more room to wash your brain out.
WHEN DOG BARKS (THAI), THEY DONT' BITE.
the siem is trying to minipulate the situation. watch out for the thief!
Ah "Siem" Kom Sak Tha Te Morth.
We are khmers(khmer leu,khmer krom,khmer surin,khmer US,khmer FR,khmer canada....)We love each other,we respect the International Law,
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Dedicated to publishing sensitive information about Cambodia
Tuesday, January 15, 2008
A Khmer view of the Thai view of the Khmer
Comment by Bora Touch
Phnom Penh Post, Issue 8/19, September 17 - 30, 1999
Bora Touch, a Khmer living in Sydney, Australia, continues the discussion on the Khmer home in Southeast Asia prompted by a reported statement of Don Pramudwinai of the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs
I AGREE with the historical description by Kenneth T So in "The Khmer home in Southeast Asia: A Wider View", (Post August 6-19, 1999). I do not think that Mr So is obsessed about the Khmer past, as C Rabour has alleged. Rather, Mr So was provoked by Don Pramudwinai who has asserted that Battambang and Siem Reap were historically part of Thailand or Siam.
Battambang, Siem Reap and Srei Sophorn, (later Serei Sophom, or Sisophon as the Thai pronunciation of it) never belonged to Siam (known as Thailand since 1939). Those regions have always belonged to Cambodia, but have been attacked and at certain times in history, annexed by Thailand. Most recently, these regions were invaded and taken by Siam/Thailand in 1795 and 1941. They remained under Thai control until 1946.
The first Siamese invasion and looting of Angkor was in about 1352 and again in the 1430s. Ayuthaya, the Siamese capital, itself was built on top of the demise of Sri Dvaravati, former kingdom of the Mons.
The provinces taken from the Khmers in 1795 were Battambang, Siem Reap/Angkor, Bongkol-borei, Srei Sophorn, Siem Pang. In 1814 more provinces were annexed by Siam, namely Mlou Prei, Tole Peou, and Stung Treng.
Only in 1907 were most of these provinces returned to Cambodia. However, other Khmer borei, now called provinces or khet, such as Norkor Reachborie (Korat), Boreirom (Buriram), Sorint (Surin), Korkhan, Sisaket, Bascemborie (Prachinburi), Chantaborie (Chantaburi), Champasak and Trat annexed before 1790, have remained under Thai occupation till today.
Under the French-Thai treaty executed in 1907, the Thais were required to return to Cambodia only those provinces taken by the Thais after 1790. For this, Thais should thank the Anglo-French conflict, because Thailand was not part of French Indochina but was an ally of the English.
History from the Thai point of view, especially relating to the Angkorian legacy, was cultivated by King Mongkut and later his son, Prince Damrong Rajanubhab, the "father of Thai modern history" and the architect of the Thai modern state.
It has been reinforced by people like Luang Vichitr Vadhakarn, the director of Department of Fine Arts in 1932 and his successor Dhanit Yupho in the 1960s when the Thais were engaged in nationalist and prejudicial policies toward their neighbors, especially the Khmers.
History as told by the leaders of Thailand has been an attempt to reinforce Thai nationalism and to clarify the confused national identity of the Thai people. Confused because the Yunan Thais, the Vietnamese and the Chinese have, to use David Chandler's phrase, an identity crisis. The Chinese are not worried but the other two are. The Thais began their identity crisis during the 1908-1910 riots when Chinese residents refused to pay Thai taxes. The Vietnamese crisis started when they split from Qin or China. One way to try to distinguish themselves from Chinese, Vietnamese women dyed their teeth black, a very painful process.
After the Siamese victory, with Khmer military assistance, in the long and destructive wars with Burma (1548-1592, 1760-1767); and the founding of the current Chakkri dynasty in 1782 (the current King is the ninth King of the dynasty) the Siamese began to attack the traditional boundaries of Cambodia.
In the 1850s, King Mongkut hired a Welsh governess, Anna Leonowens, to educate his children. As a result of this different education, lifestyle and Western way of thinking, successive Thai kings began to view Khmer traditions and lifestyle as outdated. The Chakkri kings began to view the Khmers to be Khmamen padong or "the jungle Khmers", hence the uncivilized Khmers.
The term "contemptible Khmamen" lives on today. This prejudice was so strong that many of the successive Thai generations did not want to have any thing to do with the Khmer people, which has led to the propagation in Thailand of a uniquely Thai version of history relating to the Khmers. History as taught to Thai children has encouraged a terrible prejudicial stereotyping of Khmers which continues, in my experience, to this day.
I personally experienced discrimination by Thais. I was invited to the Thailand home of a Thai of Khmer origin. At first the whole family was nice and friendly, but once I was introduced as Khmer, the youngsters began to treat me with contempt. The parents were quite embarrassed and had to apologize, whispering to me that it was sad that the children did not know that they were of Khmer origin. When I asked if they told their children they were of Khmer origin, they told me that "it is not wise to do so in the circumstances".
The dinner went on. The children chose not to join us at the dinner table. I wondered why they would treat me this way. I realized that I was the "contemptible Khmer" they had heard about in classes on Thai history. Racial discrimination comes from two things: fear and/or ignorance. In the case of Thais, it stems from an ignorance about Khmer civilization.
Another reason for the manipulation of history by the Thais came from the amazing evidence of Khmer civilization which, according to historians, was well advanced by the time Christianity came into existence.
This civilization encompassed the lands taken by Thailand from Cambodia - the architecture, court etiquette, culture and traditional religion and language. (The Pali language, used in Khmer scripts, was used by the Siamese until the 19th century.)
The Thais have adopted or appropriated much of the great Khmer legacy as their own and due to their view of Khmers as uncivilized, refuse to link their "history" with Cambodian history.
A more recent example of appropriation of Khmer history by Thailand is found in Luang Vichitr Vadhakarn's book, Thailand's case, and Prince Damrong's Nirat Nakhorn Wat (Trip to Angkor Wat), treated as official historical texts by Thailand.
According to Vadhakarn's theory, the place now called Cambodia once belonged to an ethnic group called "Khom". They were eliminated by the Thais. The Khmers who lived in present-day Cambodia were part of the Thai race. This is, according to Vadhakarn, proven by the identical-ly similar civilization, culture, tradition and arts of the two countries.
Vadhakarn was not alone in this theory. A Thai nationalist newspaper, Chaothai, on 31 October 1959, stated the same thing. The newspaper quoted an opposition party leader, Seni Pramoj, a Thai lawyer in the Khmer-Thai dispute in the Preah Vihear case (1962), saying that there was an ethnic group called "Khom" living in the areas now called Thailand and Cambodia. The article continued to say that Thais had killed most of them and the rest were chased away, retreating to India where they once belonged. As a result of this Thai victory, the Thais were divided into groups: one group was concentrated in the lower part, now called Cambodia; and the other one lived in upper part now called Thailand. The proof of this was that the arts and the traditions were strikingly similar.
Vadhakarn also stated "it is an established fact that the Khmers and Cambodians are not the same people... The coming into existence of this new name 'Cambodja' marked the end of the old Khmer Race and the birth of a new people who have 90% of Thai blood". (Thailand's Case, p129).
Contrary to Vadharkan's assertion, the term "Khom" was an ancient word used by Thais and Laos for the Khmer people. According to the historian Charles Keyes, in his article "The Case of the Purloined Lintel: The Politics of a Khmer Shrine as a Thai National Treasure", this term was used in "the popular press - with semi-official backing - to disassociate the modern Khmer from the heritage of Angkor" (p278). The term "Khom" was Thai and Laotian pronunciation and transliteration of "Khmer".
Many peoples have used different terms or pronunciations to describe the Khmer: in about AD 70, Pliny, the Roman author and his exploring son called the Khmer Camarini (Historica Naturalis), they were called Kumar by the Arabs; Kui kmi by the Chams, Coa Mein, or Mein, by the Vietnamese.
Khom have not been terminated as some Thais have claimed. The current Cambodians are the Khom.
In my view, the statement made by Don Pramudwinai of the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in July in the Nation newspaper indicates that Mr Don has been taught history from a Thai perspective.
His statement is indicative of the continuation of the Thai policy of expansionism of his previous leaders, especially the late Phibul Sangkram, the Thai Prime Minister who in World War II, with Japanese assistance, again occupied the Battambang, Serei Sophoan (Sisophon) and Siem Reap provinces between 1941-1946.
Hopefully, the traditional Thai take on history will not prevail in the current Thai-Cambodian border discussions. The Thais may think that saying that these provinces traditionally belonged to Thailand would pressure the Khmers, inducing them to agree to the border proposed by the Thais rather than the original map drawn by the French in 1904.
This Thai attitude arises not from facts, rather from arrogance. It is a rule of thumb now that when you are rich and you have power you can manage to be arrogant. You don't need to care what you utter.
The Khmers, the Thais and the Vietnamese all have suffered more than enough. Live and let live. The three are stronger when together and all should, according to the current progressive Chinese nationalism, be aware that the One-China Policy may not be restricted to Taiwan only.
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http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=xorptXAakNo
Yes, with Anna that put Thai ahead. It's normal that people forget where they come from and quickly put down others including their former self. Thai is no exception.
People say that every minute, a jumbo jerk was born and most were in Thailand. Go & Eat your heart out bastard!
I'm Thai(new generation) and I think statment in 11.46 pm is true. that's why the book of Vadharkan's has been taught in school for a long time now. However, there are some old generation that still think like you mentioned. Hopefully, Preah Vihear temple will be listed as a World Heritage Site soon. And Thai,Khmer and laos will be a good neighbour.
11:46PM Please do not writen a Long Pages I hate to read it Thank.
if they (siem) are so worry about the defined border, i suggest use the 1962 map that the hague court of international justice had in store and goes from there, instead of making a new argument in order to open new wound. i think khmers have already know what we want to do with our temple, so it is the siem who are actually in the dark about this problem from the way they approach, desperately at this gesture of khmer. if the issue is not the temple, then work on the bilateral development of the SURROUNDING AREAS, meaning the siem on the siem's side, the khmer on the khmer side. and siem don't even try to touch our temple, instead siem should work diplomatically with khmer to develop the again, surrounding area like building permanent access roadway from the khmer side as well as connecting from the siem's side because the development plans of the area could go both way, but if siem decide to close their side of the border permanently because they want o protest or whatever against the khmer's plan to develop on our side of the border, then i suggest siem be careful about this intention because khmer can let siem shut their border permanently and khmer can help to build a concrete wall for them so access from the siem's side will be impossible or khmer can only allow access to our temple from the khmer side only if anyone wants to visit our temple. so, the reality is up for siem to decide. and don't even dream about taking our preah vihear temple.
I'm also Thai here but I believe most Thai have Khmer blood in there roots. We all still have good associatiion with each other. The new generation always regard Khmer as our brothers. Please believe me most of us new generation always think that we are related to Khmer. We wouldn't be disrespecting orignal Khmer. I support your request of putting preah Vihear into world heritage. Cause they are yours. Forget about these idiots generals they just love to show off.
Let's Thailand and Cambodian become Thaicam as one as brothers, and everyone speaks Thai.
F..You! You got to speak Khmer you god damn Kapik!
Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnamese must find permanent solutions to their centuries old problems if they were to put the region in peace. I bet your there will never be peace as long as the three governments do nothing. The solution should be done in the government level; the permanent solutions must be found if it has to amend the history books to be taught from then on... The problems between Cambodia and Thailand are mostly border encroaching by Thailand, Thai history books of khmer kings and culture, and arrogance. The problems between Cambodia and Vietnamese are mostly border encroaching by the Vietnam, the oppression of Khmer Kampuchea Krom and the Vietnamese government meddling in Cambodia politics. The problems between Cambodia and Laos is virtually nothing except some border encroaching. With millions of Khmers citizens and 7 provinces to Thailand, and millions more citizens and 5 provinces to Vietnamese not so long ago; Khmers are in the stage of anxiety to lose anymore of Khmer lands.
Whether we are willing to the past behind or not is up to the three/four governments to decide or hostilities finds this region a home.
3:17: I m agree with you. I met some new thai generation who are more clever (especially female) and try to understand their history. Thai problems come from identity crisis and the old generation dont want to admit that thai inherited from the khmer kingdom that is very weak since the 14th century.
I think in the future, thai people will be very proud that they have some khmer blood in their veins. Nowadays, they are just looking for thai people from chinese descent it is more prestigious or even mix european-thai (look for the actor and singers...). But when the world will re-discover the rich culture and heritage of khmer history and Cambodia, that was darken by 40 years of war, it will be a matter of proud to claim as being from khmer descent...
10:36Am, You know they can't say no for who they are. But historically and naturally Thai almost have their descent came from us Khmer. I bet you if they DNA 90% of Thai I bet they are all related to Khmer. You know when they won the war over Khmer back then they gathered, confiscated whatever belong to Khmer to claim as their. If they stop fabricate the history I bet new Thai generation will not be confused any more. I am Thai but my blood is 90% Khmer live in Prachinburi.
Preah Vihear temple part of Thailand
As a Khmer architecture junkie, I find Dr Reiff's rationale somewhat presumptive in maintaining that since the Preah Vihear temple has Hindu elements, it therefore should belong to Cambodia (Postbag, Jan 29).
There are many temples along the royal road from Angkor Wat to Phimai (such as Surin, Prachin Buri and Buri Ram) that have Hindu elements and Khmer style of architecture, and yet, indisputably they belong to the modern Siam (Thailand).
Phnom Rung in Buri Ram, another potential World Heritage site with plenty of Khmer art, is definitely not claimable by Cambodia.
The judgement of the Court of Justice in The Hague on the territory of Preah Vihear temple was only a legalistic interpretation and, with due respect to the court, all the Thai governments since the ruling date have accepted the decision.
However, it is an indisputable fact that natural access to the Preah Vihear temple has to be made through Thai territory and hence physically it is difficult for visitors not to view the temple as being within Thai territory.
In theory, the temple may belong to Cambodia, but in practice, the temple is part of Thailand.
So it is rather ludicrous for Cambodia to ask the UN to recognise the temple as a World Heritage site without Thailand's participation.
SONGDEJ PRADITSMANONT
Bangkok
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