Sophal Leng in 1980
Sophal Leng StaggKR memoir writer says leaders should be executed
Phnom Penh Post, Issue 17 / 02, January 24 - February 7, 2008
Sophal Leng Stagg believes she is among the luckiest of Khmer Rouge survivors. Despite her father being a former police investigator for the Lon Nol regime, her parents and her seven brothers and sisters all survived the Killing Fields. To her this is a miracle since she has never met another family that “managed to stay intact.” The family immigrated to the US in 1980 and in 1985, Stagg, pregnant with her first child, began to write her book Hear Me Now, a platform she uses to lecture in schools throughout the United States. The popularity of the book led to the funding of the Southeast Asian Children’s Mercy Fund, which she established with her American husband William Stagg. The foundation provides assistance and training to poor families in the region and includes an “adopt a family project” that has inspired many Americans to help. On a visit to Cambodia this month, Stagg spoke to the Post’s Tracey Shelton about her childhood under the KR, her teaching and her desire for the Khmer Rouge tribunal to get on with trials and find the defendants guilty. She says: "They should be executed right away."
What made you decide to write the book?
My children. Once it was published it became a tool to educate other American kids and to raise money to help the people of Cambodia – I’m very proud of that.
You are very passionate about the need for Khmer Rouge history to be incorporated into Cambodian school curriculum. Why is this so important to you?
Writing the book and talking in the schools became a form of healing for me. I want to pass that on to Khmer people. There has been no education on the genocide in Cambodian schools for 15 years – these kids don’t even believe their grandmothers’ stories anymore. I work very hard in the US to educate American kids so the people that suffered are not forgotten. It makes me upset that Khmer kids have forgotten. Education will open up dialogue between the generations. Teach the children in school and the whole country can get therapy.
What do you remember about the KR period?
I was nine years old on April 17, 1975 when the KR took over. I remember the soldiers riding on tanks and marching through the streets, but my mother would not let me watch. A bullhorn announcement on every street corner announced that we had to leave by nightfall because the Americans were going to bomb the city. We were told to bring just enough clothes for three days as once the city was cleared up we could return to our homes. I remember my mother trying to go to the market for food supplies but the city was in chaos. By 4pm the announcements began to show intense force and anger. “You must leave now or we will consider you the resistance and you will be shot.” There was only one road to leave by. We were wedged in the crowd and everyone was pushing. Soldiers lined the roadsides shooting into the air telling us to move faster but it was impossible. There was a frightening sad fear in everyone. I looked back to see the city on fire. By that time I had the sense that I would never return home.
How did your family manage to survive?
My brother and father were military. As we walked my mother whispered to us not to tell anyone what they did. She told me to say my father was a taxi driver and to speak in lower class terms so no one would know I was educated. She said if I did not adapt, if did not change, they were going to kill my father. I understood enough to change my way faster than other people. I don’t know how she got that information but this saved my family.
We walked to Kampong Cham. There were pro-Khmer Rouge signs on every house. The old people despised us! Even the children. They believed the new people had exploited them. They blamed us for everything – their hard lives, their fathers having to fight in the jungle – literally everything from A-Z. Now they had privileges and power over the educated. It was so hard to hold my tongue. The KR soldiers had taken all our valuables so they were wearing our watches but they didn’t know how to read the time. So many times I wanted to scream at them, “You’re a bunch of morons! I’m better than you.”
Last week you went to the Khmer Rouge courts. Do you think the trials will bring some justice and satisfaction to the victims?
I think the trials should be short. I’m all for the trials but the most important thing is educating the kids. Money and time needs to go into that. Enough money spent on this already. Everyone knows they are guilty. They should be executed right away. If they were executed on national TV, maybe that could provide some satisfaction.
What do you think would happen if one of the defendants was found not guilty?
A riot. And I would be right there among them. The anger is buried deep but it is there – the pain people suffered won’t go away. I thought I was dealing with it just fine. Then I saw the courts – the money they are spending, the way they treat the defendants – if I had fangs they would have come out. It’s ludicrous! Where were international standards in the way they treated us. We were treated like animals. A doctor each, three meals a day, Western toilets at their request – they’re treated like royalty. It sends the wrong message. Normal Cambodians that live outside that gate aren’t living that way.
How much of an impact do you feel the Khmer Rouge reign has had on Cambodian society today?
Every place I look – in the eyes of every person – the KR have left behind a trace. In everything I see the damage. What have they done to their people? Crippled them. Instilled fear and dishonesty. The brave and the educated are dead, and a lot died along with them. During my first trip back in 2000, I asked my mother why did people always lie and cheat like this. I felt like all the good people had died. They taught us to lie and cheat. We were starving constantly. We were forced to become thieves, liars. It seems like many Cambodian people lost themselves back then and they never got their souls back. Like a dog, when you are pushed into a corner you bite back. The KR instilled these things in people and now they are trapped. All this goodness has been lost. Corruption and chaos are the legacy they have left behind.
How do you see the future for Cambodia?
I think the government is trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with. But how can you cap greed in a human being?
And Reconciliation?
The international community has put their money in the wrong place – education is equally if not more important than the trials. Kids should have been educated about what happened to their father. Now they need to be educated about who killed their grandfather. Is it going to be, “they killed my great grandfather” before you start educating these kids! By then it will be too late. It will just be history for them.
What made you decide to write the book?
My children. Once it was published it became a tool to educate other American kids and to raise money to help the people of Cambodia – I’m very proud of that.
You are very passionate about the need for Khmer Rouge history to be incorporated into Cambodian school curriculum. Why is this so important to you?
Writing the book and talking in the schools became a form of healing for me. I want to pass that on to Khmer people. There has been no education on the genocide in Cambodian schools for 15 years – these kids don’t even believe their grandmothers’ stories anymore. I work very hard in the US to educate American kids so the people that suffered are not forgotten. It makes me upset that Khmer kids have forgotten. Education will open up dialogue between the generations. Teach the children in school and the whole country can get therapy.
What do you remember about the KR period?
I was nine years old on April 17, 1975 when the KR took over. I remember the soldiers riding on tanks and marching through the streets, but my mother would not let me watch. A bullhorn announcement on every street corner announced that we had to leave by nightfall because the Americans were going to bomb the city. We were told to bring just enough clothes for three days as once the city was cleared up we could return to our homes. I remember my mother trying to go to the market for food supplies but the city was in chaos. By 4pm the announcements began to show intense force and anger. “You must leave now or we will consider you the resistance and you will be shot.” There was only one road to leave by. We were wedged in the crowd and everyone was pushing. Soldiers lined the roadsides shooting into the air telling us to move faster but it was impossible. There was a frightening sad fear in everyone. I looked back to see the city on fire. By that time I had the sense that I would never return home.
How did your family manage to survive?
My brother and father were military. As we walked my mother whispered to us not to tell anyone what they did. She told me to say my father was a taxi driver and to speak in lower class terms so no one would know I was educated. She said if I did not adapt, if did not change, they were going to kill my father. I understood enough to change my way faster than other people. I don’t know how she got that information but this saved my family.
We walked to Kampong Cham. There were pro-Khmer Rouge signs on every house. The old people despised us! Even the children. They believed the new people had exploited them. They blamed us for everything – their hard lives, their fathers having to fight in the jungle – literally everything from A-Z. Now they had privileges and power over the educated. It was so hard to hold my tongue. The KR soldiers had taken all our valuables so they were wearing our watches but they didn’t know how to read the time. So many times I wanted to scream at them, “You’re a bunch of morons! I’m better than you.”
Last week you went to the Khmer Rouge courts. Do you think the trials will bring some justice and satisfaction to the victims?
I think the trials should be short. I’m all for the trials but the most important thing is educating the kids. Money and time needs to go into that. Enough money spent on this already. Everyone knows they are guilty. They should be executed right away. If they were executed on national TV, maybe that could provide some satisfaction.
What do you think would happen if one of the defendants was found not guilty?
A riot. And I would be right there among them. The anger is buried deep but it is there – the pain people suffered won’t go away. I thought I was dealing with it just fine. Then I saw the courts – the money they are spending, the way they treat the defendants – if I had fangs they would have come out. It’s ludicrous! Where were international standards in the way they treated us. We were treated like animals. A doctor each, three meals a day, Western toilets at their request – they’re treated like royalty. It sends the wrong message. Normal Cambodians that live outside that gate aren’t living that way.
How much of an impact do you feel the Khmer Rouge reign has had on Cambodian society today?
Every place I look – in the eyes of every person – the KR have left behind a trace. In everything I see the damage. What have they done to their people? Crippled them. Instilled fear and dishonesty. The brave and the educated are dead, and a lot died along with them. During my first trip back in 2000, I asked my mother why did people always lie and cheat like this. I felt like all the good people had died. They taught us to lie and cheat. We were starving constantly. We were forced to become thieves, liars. It seems like many Cambodian people lost themselves back then and they never got their souls back. Like a dog, when you are pushed into a corner you bite back. The KR instilled these things in people and now they are trapped. All this goodness has been lost. Corruption and chaos are the legacy they have left behind.
How do you see the future for Cambodia?
I think the government is trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with. But how can you cap greed in a human being?
And Reconciliation?
The international community has put their money in the wrong place – education is equally if not more important than the trials. Kids should have been educated about what happened to their father. Now they need to be educated about who killed their grandfather. Is it going to be, “they killed my great grandfather” before you start educating these kids! By then it will be too late. It will just be history for them.
22 comments:
Silly Americanized girl, if they are to be executed right away, then you will be no different than them. Let them explain themselves, let them reveal the other culprits, it was not just the natives whos hands were stained with blood, but those who are 'higher' than the current leaders of Khmer.
Dead or alive; guilty or not guilty -- no one, and I say it again -- no one will know the truth.
438pm,
Second to that.
Takes one to know one,the US is guilty as much as China not to say Viet Cong and their stooges like Sihnouk and company.
She could not tell the difference since she lives with an old US man.
Sophal,
Give me a break.You claims tou write the book,Hear Me Now,are you sure? I heard but it was done by a hired PhD from University of South Florida who has snooped around town for additional information.
Did she ever read anything about how Vietnamese put their nose or have their bloody hands in Cambodian affairs? All these got have cause and affect into play. The YOUN cause this chaotic in Cambodia.
Fuck you all as a victime and a human she has right to feel that way
You fucking communist alway ask us to be nice went you fucking communist demond act like beast!
Can you at leat try to understand better see if we killed your father Ah hun Xen in stead?
You may understand that as policeman in Cambodia it doesn't sound too good at all. The police department were currupted as same as now, Oumanarin was in charge those days, I beleive. During Lon Nol head police and soldier supported Khmer Rouge by selling them war supplies. Thus, instead of support Lon Nol, the police and soldiers killed Lon Nol. So my conclusion that her dad killed himself.
ms stag is a typical victim anguish, and she, like many others do have the rights to feel this way after losing family members and relatives, etc... so, i, too, as one of the cambodian victims during that time. i feel the same way she feels, and i can tell you that most of cambodians who have lived during that time feel the same way. what this trial will serve is one way of healing the pain cambodians have gone through. i also believe that all things happened for a reason, and everything that god put on this planet do have a beginning and an end; we humans have to search for the truth. may god bless cambodia and her people.
I thought she is entitled to her opinion just as you entitled to yours. What's wrong with that? Why do you, idiots pretending experts, have to draw demonizing conclusions? What have you done to rebuild Cambodia?
I would say there were two groups of gangsters (name from C to R to S and U and V) were involved gang warfare in Southeast Asia.
They decided to choose Cambodia for their turfs of war and revenge.
Khmer Rouge ended up to be a person who has been assigned to carry real messy turf war. The leaders of each group of gangsters were sitting and watch whereas the mentors of each groups were providing whichever they can.
Absolutely, the person who did the messy and ugly job was guilty. The leaders were set free because of lacking of evidence and/or the bus stop at the frontgate so the speak.
Literally, all training provided, the bombing campaign and supplied arms, the betrayal by walking away from friends who fought on your side, irresponsible to allow this dirty urgly, and unimaginable condition to take place.
Khmer Rouge is found guilty of first degree murder and genocide.
But Can these groups (CHINA, RUSSIA, USA and VN as well as Sihanouk) share the guilty of second degree involuntary massacre and negelgence of facts. The war conducted in Cambodia was not a declared war by anyone. so the speak, it was illegal for those who involved to declare and pretext themselves that it was a legal and recognizable war by all sides.
Then it was a conspiracy to commit crime against humanity by all sides.
WW I and WW II all sides were acknowledged that there was a declaration of hostility and war.
In criminal court and justice, when someone intentionally provides a criminal with a weapon to kill, the said person is responsible for the action to certain degree of conspiracy to commit murder.
It is too bad that all buses have to stop at their front houses.
may cambodia reconcile and live in peace with the world. peace to all.
Funny how we like to denounce our fellow Khmers. Her memoir gave her own view of her recount of the Khmer Rouge era. If she feels that the leaders should be executed right away, well that is her right to feel that way. Weather we know the truth or not, I say not. These leaders are too old and will die eventually. You can see that they blame outside foreigners or a ghost. They insult our Khmer Citizens till this day. Remember that our country just started with our newly found independence. It was fragile. We couldnt over come the forces of our neighbors. Be proud of our fellow Khmers for the work they done. Why DENOUNCE it? I still dont understand. I guess Pol Pot in doctrine the hatred through our parents and now from there to our kids. I certainly hope that the new batch of generations will learn to unite. Be proud that our country name is still on the map.
i encourage everyone to be proud of who they are. don't be afraid to speak khmer. we are khmer. we should encourage every khmer person to stand up for their own rights. we shouldn't be ashame of ourselves, regardless. the cambodian nation have survived and existed for over two thousand years now, maybe even longer. our nation had been through ups and downs, have been an empire, had been a great khmer civilization, had had victories and losses, had seen a few hundred years of decline, had been a european colony, had seen civil wars, had been to hell and back, etc, etc,. despite these disruptions and after the dust had settled, khmer nation still live on like the rest of the world. so, this is nothing new to us as a race. we should be very proud of who we are. please, don't be ashamed to be khmer. let us all unite and be as one strong force to be reckon with. god help us.
Yuons are behind the genocide in Cambodia.
Question: How many Cambodian or Cambodian-American, who is residing in the United States, can ACTUALLY write his or her own book (s) without the assistance from the experts, irrespective of your advanced degrees.
Answer: Non. Therefore, if you fall into this category, you're no difference than Ms. Sophal.
Reality: I've seen too many Cambodian-American who acquired advanced degrees (yes, Mr. Sichan Siv, this including you) yet unable intellectually articulate him or herself through writing in the English language (without the help from your American friend (s) or other experts.
Thus, moreover, Ms. Sophal did what she had to do to express her idea with the assistance from other experts.
9:53pm
you are so ignorant to even mention it. that tells the whole story already.
how do i know you are any better when you writing are resort to personal attacks?
hello!! in acedemia, one has to give credit to the idea or concept they borrowed from in research papers. this is how students are taught to do in colleges and universities, at least in america. one can not just claim to come up with an idea of their own unless it is original. so, there is nothing wrong with that. please don't make such a big deal out of it for borrowing and getting assistance, especially in writings. some people on this blog should know this already!
this is going back to the so-called 'nobody is perfect'. especially, if english is your second language, i don't care what kind of degree one have, your going to need others' assistance. isn't it true in the world, everyone dependent on everyone else; we can't function well without helps from other people; so it is common sense. this is why we get educated to avoid this kind of argument.
How many Cambodian-Americans who acquired their advanced degree (s) without the assistance of someone who is better than them?
The Cambodian-Americans who have acquired their education in the Western countries have not academically proved themselves that they're can express or articualate themselves without being helped from their American counterpart. However, we must admire the Cambodian-Americans for being nearly perfect on mathematics. That's about it -- and, nothing more!
ALL OF YOU ARE FUCKING IDIOT.
FUCK ALL OF YOU!
Moha kamlang but no brains ! Khmer politicians please accept your responsibilities and walk through Hell's court beneath the earth.
The Khmer Rouge gencide tribunal will justify and prove nothing, with the exception of squandering millions of international community dollar for this circus trial; the trial is nothing but a charade.
Post a Comment