Friday, October 24, 2008
ABC Radio Australia
When Asian and European leaders meet in Beijing this weekend they will focus on the economy.
But on the sidelines, Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wangsawat and his Cambodian counterpart Hun Sen are expected to discuss tensions over the Preah Vihear temple. Last week, troops from both sides traded gunfire, leaving two soldiers dead and several injured. The Preah Vihear temple issue is symptomatic of border sensitivities between the two neighbours.
Presenter: Sen Lam
Speaker: Emeritus Professor David Chandler from Monash University
CHANDLER: Well, there's no legal legitimacy, because I think these were decided by the issue was decided by the International Court of Justice in 1962, a judgement that Thais didn't like, but it was final at the time and it reflected the way the border was drawn by the French and the Thais together in 1907 when those northwestern provinces returned from Thailand to Cambodia.
Now yeah, the temple is inside Cambodian territory, because of an anomaly on the border. In other words to get to the temple in Thailand, you walk along a flat plain, to get to it from Cambodia, you have to go up a cliff. So this border was not there before obviously in the 10th Century when the temple was built. But it's a matter of the Cambodians of course attach a great deal of importance, may be we might say too much, but you can't judge them to their ancient past and their glorious temples and the fact that this was given World Heritage status by the UNESCO, gave them another boost in their own prestige. Now the Thai have never taken the Cambodians seriously and in almost any way. They have always looked down on them and this seemed like a good sideshow that they could develop for their own purposes and I think the Cambodians reacted in a predictable way, may be overreacted, but still they didn't want their temple taken away from them.
LAM: Indeed, there is a perception that the Cambodians are fed up with being pushed around by the Thais. What's your view of all of this?
CHANDLER: Oh I think absolutely, but it's just a matter of how 80 million pushes 12 million. It's going to happen and the Cambodian economy is dominated with Thai products and so on. Along the border the trade is always to the benefit of the Thai. I think the Cambodians are fed up with it and they were for sometime fed up with being pushed round by the Vietnamese, so their reaction is sensible. But yeah.
LAM: How have previous border disputes been settled between Thailand and Cambodia?
CHANDLER: Well, there haven't been too many. I mean there was quite a bit of fighting along the Thai border in the 1980s when the Khmer Rouge took refuge in Thailand, quite a lot of fighting along the border there. The border has not been in much dispute outside of the area around the Preah Vihear temple. I think a lot of its through uninhabited territory for one thing and other places they are just in agreement that the border has been established for a long time. But there hasn't been disputes of this dimension really for a long time.
LAM: And on a broader front, I mean as we've touched upon the Thailand and Cambodia have had a long difficult relationship. What do they need to do to move on from these kinds of conflicts?
CHANDLER: Well, I think the Thai have to back away from this particular Preah Vihear issue. I think the Cambodians have to back away from inflaming the issue with racial rhetoric as they did in the riots of 2003 and as they might be doing to an extent now. Everybody has got to sort of cool it, and I think ASEAN has a role to play in this regard to try and pull these people back. I think on the diplomatic level, I think both sides do not want to have this thing escalate, because there is no way that a fighting war could be to the advantage of the Cambodians and also no-one's going to come to the rescue of the Cambodians either, no outside power, so you just can't have or the Thai for that matter. So you just have to not have this escalate and I think they are realising this and they are backing away from increased tension.
LAM: And of course the whole issue doesn't show ASEAN in a very good light, does it, given that Thailand is a founding member?
CHANDLER: Well, ASEAN is always fairly hands off on political issues. I mean they were hands on when Cambodia was outside of ASEAN. They made a lot of meetings about Cambodia and that was one of the main things they did. Now that Cambodia is in ASEAN, and now that Myanmar is in ASEAN they don't say much about the way these places behave. There is a sort of an agreement to not to insult or put pressure on individual members, so I think it's the way ASEAN has always operated. It doesn't put them in a good light, but it would be unprecedented for them to figure intervention on the political issue.
But on the sidelines, Thailand's Prime Minister Somchai Wangsawat and his Cambodian counterpart Hun Sen are expected to discuss tensions over the Preah Vihear temple. Last week, troops from both sides traded gunfire, leaving two soldiers dead and several injured. The Preah Vihear temple issue is symptomatic of border sensitivities between the two neighbours.
Presenter: Sen Lam
Speaker: Emeritus Professor David Chandler from Monash University
CHANDLER: Well, there's no legal legitimacy, because I think these were decided by the issue was decided by the International Court of Justice in 1962, a judgement that Thais didn't like, but it was final at the time and it reflected the way the border was drawn by the French and the Thais together in 1907 when those northwestern provinces returned from Thailand to Cambodia.
Now yeah, the temple is inside Cambodian territory, because of an anomaly on the border. In other words to get to the temple in Thailand, you walk along a flat plain, to get to it from Cambodia, you have to go up a cliff. So this border was not there before obviously in the 10th Century when the temple was built. But it's a matter of the Cambodians of course attach a great deal of importance, may be we might say too much, but you can't judge them to their ancient past and their glorious temples and the fact that this was given World Heritage status by the UNESCO, gave them another boost in their own prestige. Now the Thai have never taken the Cambodians seriously and in almost any way. They have always looked down on them and this seemed like a good sideshow that they could develop for their own purposes and I think the Cambodians reacted in a predictable way, may be overreacted, but still they didn't want their temple taken away from them.
LAM: Indeed, there is a perception that the Cambodians are fed up with being pushed around by the Thais. What's your view of all of this?
CHANDLER: Oh I think absolutely, but it's just a matter of how 80 million pushes 12 million. It's going to happen and the Cambodian economy is dominated with Thai products and so on. Along the border the trade is always to the benefit of the Thai. I think the Cambodians are fed up with it and they were for sometime fed up with being pushed round by the Vietnamese, so their reaction is sensible. But yeah.
LAM: How have previous border disputes been settled between Thailand and Cambodia?
CHANDLER: Well, there haven't been too many. I mean there was quite a bit of fighting along the Thai border in the 1980s when the Khmer Rouge took refuge in Thailand, quite a lot of fighting along the border there. The border has not been in much dispute outside of the area around the Preah Vihear temple. I think a lot of its through uninhabited territory for one thing and other places they are just in agreement that the border has been established for a long time. But there hasn't been disputes of this dimension really for a long time.
LAM: And on a broader front, I mean as we've touched upon the Thailand and Cambodia have had a long difficult relationship. What do they need to do to move on from these kinds of conflicts?
CHANDLER: Well, I think the Thai have to back away from this particular Preah Vihear issue. I think the Cambodians have to back away from inflaming the issue with racial rhetoric as they did in the riots of 2003 and as they might be doing to an extent now. Everybody has got to sort of cool it, and I think ASEAN has a role to play in this regard to try and pull these people back. I think on the diplomatic level, I think both sides do not want to have this thing escalate, because there is no way that a fighting war could be to the advantage of the Cambodians and also no-one's going to come to the rescue of the Cambodians either, no outside power, so you just can't have or the Thai for that matter. So you just have to not have this escalate and I think they are realising this and they are backing away from increased tension.
LAM: And of course the whole issue doesn't show ASEAN in a very good light, does it, given that Thailand is a founding member?
CHANDLER: Well, ASEAN is always fairly hands off on political issues. I mean they were hands on when Cambodia was outside of ASEAN. They made a lot of meetings about Cambodia and that was one of the main things they did. Now that Cambodia is in ASEAN, and now that Myanmar is in ASEAN they don't say much about the way these places behave. There is a sort of an agreement to not to insult or put pressure on individual members, so I think it's the way ASEAN has always operated. It doesn't put them in a good light, but it would be unprecedented for them to figure intervention on the political issue.
16 comments:
Thanks, Mr. Chandler for voicing out this issue.
Thank you Mr. Chandler. You are the true historian. You know about Cambodia more than Cambodian leaders.
You hit the nail on the head!
Sydney, Australia
Chandler needs to shut the fuck up. This is not a US affair.
Whoever you are 5:37, this is what called freedom of speech. Like it or not, you need to cut your pair of eyes and ears then. What Mr. Chandler said is true which you are going to deny because you've been brainwashed. Thanks Mr. Chandler.
5:37 you are right. This is not US affair, this is an absolutely global affair because Preah Vihear now is World Heritage.
Why are you so angry? You are not guilty yet until proven (which will be). So sit back and relax to get insulted.
everyone was waitting for someone to die first before they can speak out the truth. yesterday was UK MP and today Mr. Chandler from Australia. Why took you so long ?
Melbourne.
Global affair my arse, 7:47. Cambodia and Thailand are not global, fool!
5:37 PM, 7:47 PM
You shouldn't go against the US, without them Thailand wouldn't exist anymore.
5:37 PM, 7:47 PM, 8:46 PM
Are you guys out of your mind Mr. Chandler is absolutely right.
Why the Thai are so ignorant and having no shame?
On International scene knows only their rights, when it comes to obligations they just laugh at the International Community. Very soon the rest of the world will just ignore them, what ever they say will have no importance anymore.
thank you. good to hear from the scientists, khmer historian experts, etc... thailand needs to respect the international law that governs international treaties, regardless of how old these treaties are. there is no excuse whatsoever for thailand to want to steal land, temples, etc... from a smaller cambodia. thailand need to stop their greedy, expansionism or whatever like they did during the dark ages era when they just invade and stole from cambodia our lands, temples, and territories, etc... that was enough already, they must respect the international law in these days and ages. if they say they didn't agree with the treaty of 1907 or the treaty did not follow the watershed or whatever, look, sometimes a treaty is not perfect, but it's still a treaty with some exception. for example, cambodia wasn't happy either with the that same treaty that caused cambodia to lose a lot of land and sea territories, just look at the size of cambodia today, our coastline is so short in compare to thailand and vietnam. why? because the colonial france drew the map that made cambodia the way we are today. now, don't tell me that did not rankle or anger or resesent by the khmer people. just because cambodia was weak or smaller or whatever, doesn't give them the rights to invade or steal from us!! we have always said enough is enough already because if they are too greedy, they their stomach can explode, then they will die and lose more than they can chew or bite. so, stop dreaming or wanting to control or take over cambodia. we are not that easy anymore like back in your good old days of the dark ages era when there weren't any international law, or any others that could bring justice for cambodia and our khmer people. if we can accept our present size, then thailand should be able to do the same. god bless cambodia.
good that historian spoke out. Another development: Cambodia distributed the 1962 maps to journalists prior to the meeting. This was a good strategy. If Cambodia stands firm with the international treaties, Thais will always lose.
Many thank Mr. Chandler for putting up the fact on who is right and wrong here.
It clear go to show that Cambodia's and the CPP government require your knowledge and fact to start planning and re-check all of Cambodia's boarder line with the 3 neighbors. If the CPP government continue to not act and not make PUBLIC to it's people we will continue to have the same problem in the future.
Thank sir.
We are really happy to hear you raise this issue up. Because in football match both side would accuse to be right no matter it is wrong or right. However, referee is the one who can say you are right or wrong base on something. The same thing to you, Cambodia side or Thailand side may claim that each side is right but now a referee is came out I mean you raise it up so it should be clear. Thai people so now you may know referee say that you are wrong so please think about that and no more execuse because not only Cambodia side say that you are wrong but international side as well. However, we still neighbor.
Wish to see you understand and pull back as soon as possible but becareful do not step on mine and claim to Cambodia again.
Good luck.
The 80 million Thai want to push 12 million Cambodian? It is not going to happen! If China has over 1.2 billion people and even China can't push the 85 million Vietnamese! And what make the Thai think that they can push Cambodian?
The Thai needs to stop all their foolish thinking!
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