By Cass Rains, Staff Writer
Enid News (Oklahoma, USA)
Last month an Enid attorney attended two days of a U.N.-assisted genocide tribunal while on vacation in the capital city of Cambodia.
“You felt like you were seeing history when you were sitting there,” John M. Jameson said.
Jameson was visiting his fiancée in Phnom Phen and attended two days of the trial of Kaing Guek Eav, alias Duch, who commanded Phnom Penh’s notorious S-21 prison, on May 18-19.
“It was very interesting to go because it’s such a big production,” he said.
Jameson said there were about 40 people involved in the court, which could be seen through floor-to-ceiling glass windows in an auditorium from one of about 400 seats. The proceedings are translated into three languages: English, French and Khmer, and could be heard through headphones via a wireless device that broadcast the hearing.
“The auditorium was about one-fourth filled when I was in attendance,” Jameson said. He said the mixture of people there was about half westerners, who he said he believed were mostly European journalists, and the other half Cambodians.
“The people in Cambodia really aren’t that interested in going out and attending,” he said, noting he had trouble finding the tribunal when in Phenom Phen due to a lack of interest or indifference.
“As a tourist in Phenom Phen nobody talks about it,” Jameson said. “It’s hard to find someone who knows about it, or to know where to drive to. I was all on my own getting there.”
Duch (pronounced Doik) is the first senior Khmer Rouge figure to face trial, and the only one to acknowledge responsibility for his actions. Senior leaders Khieu Samphan, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary and Ieng Sary’s wife, Ieng Thirith, are all detained and likely to face trial in the next year or two.
The S-21 interrogation and torture center, also known as Tuol Sleng, was a converted high school in the middle of Cambodia’s capital city. More than 12,000 men, wo-men and children passed through it, with only a handful surviving. The S-21 is only one of at least 167 documented Khmer Rouge torture and death centers across the country.
Jameson said there are others who were involved with torture camps across the country who live openly among those they once oppressed.
“There’s lots of Khmer Rouge officers living openly throughout the country that haven’t been charged,” Jameson said. “They’re not going to be arrested and they’re not going to go to trial.”
He said Duch does not face the death penalty, only incarceration, although he had admitted to being head of the torture center. Duch has said he was only following orders when he undertook to torturing and killing Cambodians.
The Khmer Rouge came to power April 17, 1975, wanting to remake society into an agrarian utopia free of the West and capitalism. Money was abolished, the calendar was remade starting with Year One and the group’s leader Pol Pot was named “Brother Number One.” Then, the purges began.
“Anyone educated was to be rounded up and executed,” Jameson said. “This meant all teachers, lawyers, journalists and eventually anyone who wore glasses. Glasses meant they could read and were a threat.”
Jameson said almost 2 million people died as a result of the purges out of a population of 8 million. He said the total number of victims still is being debated.
Jameson said he has visited the killing fields, where Cambodians were beaten to death because the price of a bullet was too high. He’s also seen the torture center, which is being documented in the trial.
“It’s open to the public. It’s obvious they’re encouraging the public to see what’s happening,” he said. “It’s good because as part of these trials they documented what happened and documented these torture centers and killing fields.”
Jameson’s fianceŽ is the daughter of two Cambodians who were married during the rule of the Khmer Rouge.
“My fianceŽ’s parents married in a mass ‘wedding’ when a cadre leader simply paired off couples by finger pointing and declaring they were now married,” he said. “They stayed together and had five kids, and that was not uncommon.”
He said his fianceŽ’s parents were lucky to survive the brief but brutal rule of the Khmer Rouge. Vietnam invaded Cambodia in late 1978 and deposed the Khmer Rouge Jan. 7, 1979.
“Any Cambodian of a certain age can recite the exact number of horrible days, months and years the KR was in power,” Jameson said.
Duch, 66, is being tried by a U.N.-assisted genocide tribunal for crimes against humanity, war crimes, murder and torture.
Jameson said most Cambodians would rather look forward than back toward such a violent past.
“They’re looking toward the future,” he said. “They weren’t that interested in it. The country is mostly young people that weren’t alive when it happened.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
“You felt like you were seeing history when you were sitting there,” John M. Jameson said.
Jameson was visiting his fiancée in Phnom Phen and attended two days of the trial of Kaing Guek Eav, alias Duch, who commanded Phnom Penh’s notorious S-21 prison, on May 18-19.
“It was very interesting to go because it’s such a big production,” he said.
Jameson said there were about 40 people involved in the court, which could be seen through floor-to-ceiling glass windows in an auditorium from one of about 400 seats. The proceedings are translated into three languages: English, French and Khmer, and could be heard through headphones via a wireless device that broadcast the hearing.
“The auditorium was about one-fourth filled when I was in attendance,” Jameson said. He said the mixture of people there was about half westerners, who he said he believed were mostly European journalists, and the other half Cambodians.
“The people in Cambodia really aren’t that interested in going out and attending,” he said, noting he had trouble finding the tribunal when in Phenom Phen due to a lack of interest or indifference.
“As a tourist in Phenom Phen nobody talks about it,” Jameson said. “It’s hard to find someone who knows about it, or to know where to drive to. I was all on my own getting there.”
Duch (pronounced Doik) is the first senior Khmer Rouge figure to face trial, and the only one to acknowledge responsibility for his actions. Senior leaders Khieu Samphan, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary and Ieng Sary’s wife, Ieng Thirith, are all detained and likely to face trial in the next year or two.
The S-21 interrogation and torture center, also known as Tuol Sleng, was a converted high school in the middle of Cambodia’s capital city. More than 12,000 men, wo-men and children passed through it, with only a handful surviving. The S-21 is only one of at least 167 documented Khmer Rouge torture and death centers across the country.
Jameson said there are others who were involved with torture camps across the country who live openly among those they once oppressed.
“There’s lots of Khmer Rouge officers living openly throughout the country that haven’t been charged,” Jameson said. “They’re not going to be arrested and they’re not going to go to trial.”
He said Duch does not face the death penalty, only incarceration, although he had admitted to being head of the torture center. Duch has said he was only following orders when he undertook to torturing and killing Cambodians.
The Khmer Rouge came to power April 17, 1975, wanting to remake society into an agrarian utopia free of the West and capitalism. Money was abolished, the calendar was remade starting with Year One and the group’s leader Pol Pot was named “Brother Number One.” Then, the purges began.
“Anyone educated was to be rounded up and executed,” Jameson said. “This meant all teachers, lawyers, journalists and eventually anyone who wore glasses. Glasses meant they could read and were a threat.”
Jameson said almost 2 million people died as a result of the purges out of a population of 8 million. He said the total number of victims still is being debated.
Jameson said he has visited the killing fields, where Cambodians were beaten to death because the price of a bullet was too high. He’s also seen the torture center, which is being documented in the trial.
“It’s open to the public. It’s obvious they’re encouraging the public to see what’s happening,” he said. “It’s good because as part of these trials they documented what happened and documented these torture centers and killing fields.”
Jameson’s fianceŽ is the daughter of two Cambodians who were married during the rule of the Khmer Rouge.
“My fianceŽ’s parents married in a mass ‘wedding’ when a cadre leader simply paired off couples by finger pointing and declaring they were now married,” he said. “They stayed together and had five kids, and that was not uncommon.”
He said his fianceŽ’s parents were lucky to survive the brief but brutal rule of the Khmer Rouge. Vietnam invaded Cambodia in late 1978 and deposed the Khmer Rouge Jan. 7, 1979.
“Any Cambodian of a certain age can recite the exact number of horrible days, months and years the KR was in power,” Jameson said.
Duch, 66, is being tried by a U.N.-assisted genocide tribunal for crimes against humanity, war crimes, murder and torture.
Jameson said most Cambodians would rather look forward than back toward such a violent past.
“They’re looking toward the future,” he said. “They weren’t that interested in it. The country is mostly young people that weren’t alive when it happened.”
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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