By Ambassador Julio A. Jeldres
Dear Khmerization:
I fear the debate on the current state of Cambodia’s relations with Thailand is reaching a point of being farcical and does not help to a proper assessment of the situation and a better understanding of developments.
May I, at the outset, point out that I do not consider your blog to be “ultranationalist” even though at times some of the comments in the blog are offensive to other people. Worse still, some of the comments are so lacking in knowledge of the facts of a particular event that they put people off from offering a better informed comment.
But coming back to the current difficulties regarding Cambodia’s relations with Thailand, it is necessary for rational and calm minds to assess the problem and find a solution to the problem. In this regard, it is necessary in my humble opinion and with respect, that a few historical facts be recalled, as too often they are ignored:
1) Thailand and Cambodia are neighbours placed next to each other by the Creator. Every possible effort should be made by the leaders of both countries to maintain friendly relations that benefit the peoples of Thailand and Cambodia.
2) It is regrettable that Thailand has never accepted the 1962 ICJ judgment that the temple of Preah Vihear is located under the sovereignty of Cambodia. This issue has been used by successive Thai governments to instill nationalism in the minds of new generations that often have not studied the ICJ judgment or are only impressed by temporary unrealistic nationalist causes.
3) During the horrible Democratic Kampuchea period, Thai villagers in areas near the Cambodian border were the victims of the excesses of Pol Pot and his murderous clique. Yet, the people of Thailand opened their door to many thousands of Cambodians that managed to escape Pol Pot’s inferno.
4) Following the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia, Thailand opened its doors widely to thousands of Cambodians who were escaping Vietnams’s occupation of their homeland. Her majesty Queen Sirikit personally toured some of the refugees camps at the Thai-Cambodia border to ensure that conditions for the Cambodian refugees were as good as possible.
5) At the same time, the nationalist Cambodian fronts fighting against Vietnam’s occupation of Cambodia, including the Khmer Republicans and Royalists as well as the remnants of the Khmer Rouge, were allowed to operate offices and safe houses both in Bangkok and provincial cities of Thailand to pursue their diplomatic and military activities against Hanoi’s troops.
6) It is true, that some Thai military leaders made fortunes out of the parlous situation of Cambodia during this time. I recall vividly the day, when as I worked at the FUNCINPEC office in Soi Suan Phlu in Bangkok, the wife of General Chaovalit arrived without an appointment, surrounded by a large entourage and police and tried to persuade Prince Norodom Ranariddh to agree to the sale of the Royal Cambodian Embassy in Tokyo, which was being sought by rapacious Japanese businessmen whom Mrs Chavalit represented (For those that do not know, the Royal Cambodian Embassy in Tokyo was purchased by His Majesty King Norodom Sihanouk in the 1950s, and is located at a site near the Imperial Palace in Tokyo, which is considered not only the best location in Tokyo but also the most prestigious and expensive in real state value). To his credit, Prince Ranariddh, as did also Samdech Son San and Mr Khieu Samphan, they all declined to sell the Embassy site and recommended to His Majesty King Sihanouk, then President of the CGDK, to inform the Japanese government accordingly.
7) In the search for peace for Cambodia during the late 1980s and early 19990s, Thailand played a leading role and hosted several international meetings both in Bangkok and Pattaya to try to find a settlement of the Cambodian conflict.
8) Following, the Paris Peace Agreements on Cambodia of October 1991, Thailand re-established its diplomatic and commercial presence in Cambodia. This was both good and sometimes bad for Cambodia, as some of the businesses just tried to make a quick profit without providing the local Cambodians appropriate training to be able to build on for their future job prospects. Other businesses were more serious and did indeed provide training either in Thailand or on the job.
9) One of the businessmen that took advantage of the new opportunities the opening of Cambodia presented was Thaksin Shinawatra. Thaksin a vain and overbearing man, immediately understood that power in Cambodia did not lay with the winner –FUNCINPEC- of the 1993 elections but rather with the looser –the CPP- and began courting the CPP leadership as well as some of the objectionable “business” in Cambodia that prospered under the CPP’s patronage. Again, here I need to recall how as Acting Director of the Khmer Institute of Democracy (KID) in Phnom Penh, I was constantly frustrated in my attempts to have a KID produced TV program broadcast by the then Thaksin owned and operated TV channel in Phnom Penh. His representatives in Phnom Penh would not broadcast any program that may appear to be critical of the government.
Regarding the current difficulties in the relationship between the two countries it is necessary, without wishing to blame any side, to point out the following:
1) The issue of the temple of Preah Vihear has been manipulated by the People Against Democracy (PAD) to create a misguided nationalism in Thailand in their efforts to discredit Thaksin Shinawatra. But, I fear, the PAD is not alone in using the Preah Vihear issue for its own domestic political purposes and their opponents the so-called “Red Shirts” are also instilled by manipulated nationalist aspirations to “recover” Preah Vihear for Thailand.
2) The ‘hero” of the Red Shirts is Thaksin Shinawatra who during his rule as Prime Minister of Thailand presided over a corrupt regime, indeed he has himself been tried for corruption charges, and also during which gross violations of human rights took place in Thailand.
3) The Cambodian government of Prime Minister Hun Sen never did anything to improve access to the temple of Preah Vihear from the Cambodian side of the mountain, prompting most foreign tourists to visit the temple from the well developed and safer Thai side of the mountain, thus creating employment opportunities on the Thai side of the mountain but not on the Cambodian side, which remains underdeveloped and difficult to access.
4) Hun Sen also manipulated the successful inscription of the temple of Preah Vihear into the list of UNESCO’s World Heritage sites to present it as one of the “great” accomplishments of his regime but, more importantly, to hide the failure of more pressing domestic issues such as corruption, lack of an independent judiciary, violations of human rights and land grabbing, prior to the July 2008 election.
5) Any study of the literature prepared by the current Cambodian government about the temple of Preah Vihear will show that the Hun Sen-led government has claimed complete responsibility for the 1962 ICJ decision totally obscuring the role played by King Father Norodom Sihanouk on this issue, thus not giving the opportunity to new generations of Cambodians to learn about this event in their country’s history.
6) The issue has become more and more complex because both sides have used their “personal” contacts or military personnel to try to reach a settlement over the marking of the land surrounding the temple which Thailand disputes. The Thaksin aligned forces have used their “contacts” such as retired General Chaovalit, who is both despised and tolerated in Cambodia to try to sort the impasse. Both countries have sidelined the Foreign Ministries of Thailand and Cambodia which should be the leading agencies dealing with the problem. In this Thaksin and Hun Sen are very similar, they are unable to distinguish between “personal affairs” and “State affairs”, just as both have tried to diminish the links existing between the Monarchy and the peoples of Thailand and Cambodia.
7) With all its faults, Thailand remains a democracy with a strong free press and independent judiciary. Cambodia, I am afraid, is not a democracy but rather a one-party autocracy. The current Thai Prime Minister is a decent man who is trying his best to fix the many problems confronting the fabric of Thai society.
8) Last but not least, by cancelling all aid projects with Thailand, Hun Sen is again manipulating the nationalistic feelings of Cambodians and trying to bully the Thai Prime Minister, just as he bullies anybody who does not agree with him or his policies in Cambodia. Worse, by appointing Thaksin to an advisory position in his government and openly taking sides with the Thai Thaksin-aligned opposition, Hun Sen is interfering in Thailand’s internal affairs and creating a precedent for future foreign interference in Cambodia’s internal affairs.
Ambassador Julio A. Jeldres
Adjunct Research Fellow
The Asia Institute, Monash University
Melbourne, Australia
3 December 2009
29 comments:
Don't forget because of the Thai solders killing Khmer refugees that make the UN and the international community forced and put pressure on Thailand to accept $$$$$$$ to stop killing Khmer refugees and built the camps for Khmer refugees so the UN can get Khmer refugees out of Thailand safe and sound.
Thailand today must stop its greed of stealing Cambodia Preah Vihear Temple and try to live in peace with Cambodia and Khmer people used to help Thai people from the Mongol and from the Burmese.
I totally agree with you, my beloved 8:11PM!
She probably doesn't know or intentionally pretend not to know about before Siam eventually opened the door for our beloved miserable Khmer to stay in, Siam already unhumanly truncked us to the mountain and violently shot and killed us. Thanks highly grateful to UN's Million dallor payig to Saim, otherwise we once again ran into the graves of Siam!
Little did she know about the ordeal of Cambodian refugees in Thailand. Little did she know how badly Thais treated Cambodian refugees? I feel her claim is illogical in many senses. She reveals herself to embrace democracy, but was Thaksin not elected overwhelmingly by Thai people? I found this contradictory from her. How can you expect the court to have fair ruling over Thaksin's case when Thaksin administration was overthrown illegally? How many times has the pro-Thaksin party been disassembled by the court? Thaksin may have committed corruption, but the current verdict issued by the court may not have been fair at all. Thailand has frequently interfered in Cambodian affairs when it is to their benefit. Every country does it to their neighbor. I don't want to be a pretender at all. Do you think your country has never done any interference? If Thailand has interfered in our country so many times, why can't we do the same thing? Is Cambodia supposed to be a punching bag without any response at all. In fact, it may not be defined as interference at all. The way I see it is that we just host the legally elected leader in our country. I don't fully support the current government in Cambodia, but in some sense, it is more legimate than the current Thai government because it came through the election. This is FACT. If you claim to take an objective view of this, be OBJECTIVE. Lay down all facts on the table. To remove any shroud of controversy, Abhisit should call for election. If he wins, Cambodia has no reason to claim that we support Thaksin because he is an legitimate leader.
Mr. Jeldres made very good points here. However, we must not leave out the Thai mistreatment and killing of Khmer refugees along the borders in 1979. Hundreds and, perhaps thousands, were killed by Thai soldiers when they tried to cross the borders in 1979, at Nong Chan border camp and at Preah Vihear when Thai troops dumped them and forced them to walk on minefields back to Cambodia.
Yes, Thaiksin might be corrupt, as most Thai leaders are, but he was overwhelmingly elected by Thai people. He was toppled in a coup so the court case against him cannot be judged as fair because it was controlled by coup leaders. The court case was politically motivated.
However, I agree with most of Mr. Jeldres' points in the article. Well done.
How can we know he is genuine?
btw, nice comments! good points! good jobs!
Good comment and I fully support you 8:11PM.
8:30PM I don't beleive that she doesn't know but I think that she intentionally pretend not to know because there were some indicators showing in her text that she knew e.g: 1) case of 1962 ICJ judment; 2) the case of power Thai people (the wife of General Chaovalit) pursuading Prince NR to sell Cambodian Embassy in Japan of which this case most and many poeple did not know; 3)Abhisit had cancelled MOU of maritim overllaping area and managed to cancel loan to Cambodia on building the road # 68 from O'smach to Kralanh of which it is the cause resulted in Hun Sen cancelled the loan.
I agree with Jeldres. Good point. Hun Sen is very provocative. He never says of peace with Thai government. What does he want? Does he want Thanksin more than government? It is very dangerous to do this.
For me i do not want to have any problem with Thailand nor with Vietnam. I want to live in peace with my two giant neighbors.
I agree with my folks that Thai army did kill many Khmer people when we escaped from war. Vietnam also killed many khmer people too. And even worse Khmer also killed many people too. So I do not blame Thai or Vietnam. I think like this because I believe that if you do not think or care of your own children, you can not expect other people to care for your children. The same way, if khmer do not care fo khmer, how can you expect Thai and Vietnam care for Khmer? Even today Thai border rangers still kill Khmer people along the border. Does Hun Sen care abouth those people if without his political gain? Vietnam recently sent khmer beggers to Cambodia. Does Hun Sen care for them?
It is easy to blame others people when you have problem. and it is not good to do that. You can not stop problem by blaming other people. Please unite with anti-Hun Sen parties: Sam Ransy, Human Right party, make your own party to fight for our freedom, for our prosperity and peace with our neighbors.
We can not win our neighbors with war. but we can always win them by improving our economy, study, sport, art, culture and other means. Look at Singapore. Small country but very rich and smart people. We can do that. Do not sorry with the past. If we are sorry, we become hopeless. Look for the bright future. Build peace and hope and cooperation with our neighbors. Please understand there are some bad and good Thai and Vietnamese like Khmer too.
I used to live in Kao I Dang regugee camp. My group is called secteion twenty three. I live in the house that was next to the metal wire fence. I was very young back then. Sometime at night, i heard a lot of shooting from thai soldiers to Cambodians who escaped from other camp running into Kao I Dang. I heard scream and the next morning i would see blood on red soil road. It happened countless time. But the case never been reported to the press and written down in the papers. It was all killing in silence. And till these days I thank to the Thais who let Cambodians stay there. But it was not necessary to treat refugees so inhumane. My last comment, the current thai PM is the arrogant bustard.
Thanks to $$$$$$ from the UN, but may I know what day and when Her Majesty the Queen of Thailand did touring Cambodian's refugees'camps, please?, because there were dead bodies of Cambodian refugees off and down the mountain just about everywhere in 1979. Those were the old, the sick and the weak that could not travel anymore. Most of us that know the fact or seeing with our own eyes have nothing to say, except accepting the fact that we were so very poor and Thailand also poor. She couldn't affort to take care of us and had to make the cruelest decision that anyone under Buddist religion could ever imagine making. That is to shut down another fellow Buddist off their their land. With Dollars pouring from the UN, we are sure her Majesty did her job to assure the trust. Otherwise, we probably won't see her. Therefore we would like to know when did she actually touring those camps, please?
The Thai PM is the one threaten to take away the loan. And he play the game back and forth. Finally Hun Xen and the rest of the Khmers got sick of the bastard behavior. NO Khmer can put up with the crap anymore. Enough is enough.
Jeldres's statement was fair yet not completed to the fact. She played role as diplomatic with ultimate goal of bringing peace for both countries. My question is that who is going to be a mediator to put an end to this burning isue.
Ambassador Jeldres made a very good piece of essey. I vehemently agree with his points.
We should add that the Thais and the Viets have killed lots of Khmer people but Hun Sen HAS BEEN KILLING Khmers physically, economically and morally DURING HIS 30-YEAR REIGN OF TERROR, more than the Thais and Viets have done.Min Thormmada Oh Ho Min Thormmada!!!!!!!!
Long live Hun Sen!! Come on, Cambodia is your land!!
Land with the blind people, a one-eyed man is the King, as someone said
It was very painful for all khmer refugees who lived in the Camps of Thailand to escape death from Pol Pot's "inferno", as an old khmer sayings," In the water an alligator, on the ground a tiger". Unfortunatley, we are situated with greedy neigbours who always wanted more for us. To make story short, we must be strong to defend ourself from invader.
Phnom Kulen....
Good points!
Without the Power of Dhamma :RIGHTEOUSNESS" everything is permitted due to the Wrong View and Wrong Action's Kamma.
Khmer says:Cheng Pi Krapeu's Red Shirt Chourb Khla's Yellow Shirt.Thaksin and Abhisit are the same, both of them are also instilled by manipulated nationalist aspirations to "RECOVER" Preah Vihear for Thailand.
My beloved 9:46PM!
Perhaps, we Khmer ashamedly can't compare to Singapore with her smart and intelligent people, 'cause ironically and evidently speaking, if you are highly educated or unconditionally patriotic, then you are more likely the first one to die by these Mighty boaster leaders, SihanoukVarman, Nol Lon, Pol Pot, and recently SenVarman!
Julio: your article is good for reading, while I agree with most of your points, I do have a differnt opinion about the current situation between the two countries.
Main point to note is Thaksin is running out of options of countries who will or is willing to accept him. He found one in Phnom Penh, if I were him, I would do the same.
Beside the point: Hun Sen has limited knowledge, so his decision is mainly driven by that limitation. And I fully understand, when you're an idiot, you're an idiot for life, in this case, hun sen equates to hun sen, and nothing more.
As all people in this forum alleged, Thai were crual as they mistreated Khmer refugees in the 1980's. To me, Khmers are more crual, otherwise we, khmers would not run away from khmers to seek shelter in another country despite the fact that country is not even friendly to us. If everybody thinks Khmer Rouge, Vietnam or Lao would treat us better than the Thai perhaps we should choose to remain in the country or run to Vietname or Lao instead.
Everyone tends to blame Thai for mistreatment of Khmer refugees in the 1980's all he/she wants. However, in my opinion, hate or love Thailand is the only country that we, Khmers, can use as an escape route anytime Cambodia encountered crisis. Recalled the 1980 crisis and 1997 when Hun Sen staged a bloody coup against Prince Rannaridth, where 20000 or 30000 Khmer people run to Khmer-Thai border to seek safety. I wonder why those people choose run away if they think that Hun Sen government would treat Khmer people better than the Thai. Or why not run to Vietnam or Lao?
I was there in 1977 on the Thai and Cambodia border. We escaped the Khmer Rouge, but when we got into Thailand and half (200 plus people) of people escaped with us were dead never heard it again and how you say Thai open door. Lucky us "The Red Cross" saved us on time before they took us to the border and kill us all. The Siam has systematic system to expand their territory and slowly assimilation all Khmer people to their. Cambodia will never be in peace as long as any Thai (West and East) country to try grab take her lands.
I'm Khmer..Peace..peace..
People can chose to see the good side of the Thai leaders but to me there are more bad than good when I see the Thai leaders!
Remember! When Cambodia got independent from France and Thai leaders send their military to occupy Khmer Phrea Vihear temple! And King Sihanouk had to drap their fucken arse into international court!
Remember! During the Vietnam War, Thailand allowed American military to station in Thailand and the B-52regularly flown from Thailand and bombed the hell out of Cambodia!
Remember!During the Vietnam invasion of Cambodia and the Thai leaders got scare of the Viet by allowing the Cambodian resistance force and the Khmer Rouge to take shelter along their border and use them as human shield! The Thai leaders knew if the fucken war is going to break out and it is the Cambodian resistance and the Cambodian refugee who will bear the heavy casualty!
Remember...
There is no such thing as free lunch as for Thailand and the Thai leaders are just looking after their personal and national interest and of course with some degree of pressure from major power such United States and China to allow Cambodian to enter their country! Other than that they would rather kill these Cambodian people in a heart beat!
The problem with Thai leaders and Thai people is that they are intoxicated too much in their superior complex over Cambodian! When they see Cambodian start watching their movie, using their products and eat their food and they began to see Cambodian even more inferior than them and by looking down Cambodian leaders and Cambodian people is justify and in addition they think that Cambodia can never achieve their status as an advance and wealthy country like Thailand!
i was dumped together with my young brother, sisters and a very, very sick mother on the Dorng Rek Mountain and walked the intested mine fields of Preah Vihear. the Thai were crueled. How many Cambodian been through transit in Lompini? How did the Thai cooks treated you?
All historical facts as specific events, as lived or experienced by men are real empirical events: the experiences were real, the hardship or pleasure derived out of those events were genuine. By themselves, such events constitute irrefutable facts of history and therefore of its ‘truth’. By way of contrast, recalled events or facts are loaded with infinite meanings, motives, sincerity, prejudice, ignorance, denial, wisdom etc., all of which have the accumulating effect of rarefying and complicating our understanding of human interactions.
Without wanting to take issue with individuals or names, it is important that Cambodians and supposed friends of Cambodia alike endeavour to take dispassionate views of events be they of the present or past. Perhaps, this is asking the impossible given human beings’ tendency to reciprocate one another’s action, and their propensity to confuse personal sentiment with the wider interests affecting their community or nation. That aside, on balance it is fair to say that Cambodians are more repeatedly prone to committing this fatal mistake by allowing the power of patronage and all its entanglements to take precedence over core issues of national importance. That this is the case can be seen through patronage relations between the CPP regime and its supporters, and more disconcertingly between this regime and its Hanoi patron. The entanglements of which I refer bind not just supporters of the current regime, but also important elements of the Khmer monarchy as well as non-royalists previously united in the anti-Vietnamese front which has been surreptitiously, but mechanically and in a few simple stages dissolved as distinct entities with their emasculated parts or residue nonchalantly incorporated into that patronage system.
The view of historical facts with which we are dealing is being presented by a known observer of Khmer history and life-long friend of N. Sihanouk. It is believed that the Thai and Khmer monarchies have been able to maintain exceptionally cordial relations despite divergences in important areas between their respective countries. So perhaps, it is unsurprising that the undertones of this letter veer towards conciliatory angle and bypass some important details pertinent to both nations.
• To start with, although I have maintained the view that both Thailand and Cambodia have more in common than there are differences between them and that both governments should come to an accommodation that benefit their peoples, I do not believe that the two nations were placed next to each other by the ‘Creator’ or some other coincidental forces, but rather this had something to do with territorial ambition and aggrandizement of successive Siamese dynasties themselves.
• Second, historical conflicts between the two nations that had been created in support of this ambition and expansion still resonate and recycle traditional hostilities and rivalries between the two countries today and this ‘fact’ is reflected in not just the 5 square kilometres of land surrounding the Khmer temple of Preah Vihea alone, but also the thousands of kilometres of maritime waters off the Cambodian coast which has been claimed by Bangkok in its bilateral agreement with Vietnam who has also chalked out similar size of Cambodian maritime space for herself.
• Finally, no matter how civilised or decent Abhisit Vijajiva is, he is bound to and must advance his own country’s interests first and foremost unlike Cambodia’s myopic leaders.
MP
Ahbullshit is facing Hun Sen and facing his own Red Shits so Hun Sen still get more advantage of Ahbullshit. The general election must be held soon in Thailand and Ahbullshit will be replaced by the Red Shit leader maybe Cambodia and Thailand can live in peace at least.
Jelres's statements are accurate but selective. He should have delved further to see better. Khmer says siem min chaol kbuon yuon min chal put.
well, we got to ask who started it by interfering with cambodia's internal affairs like the listing of our preah vihear into unesco's world heritage site? go figure, please! now that cambodia is playing game too, siem has a rude awaking? now, all of a sudden, it's about thanksin/hun sen! what happened to siem pad thugs wanted to steal cambodia's preah vihear temple and surrounding lands, huh! now, the whole world can see siem's dirty game, really!
yes, things didn't just happen from nothing, you know! khmer says when there's fire burning, expect to see smoke; it goes together, you know! wake up, please! min del mean pleung heuy khmean psang nooh teh, chah!
any exception to the rule is hard to believe by khmer people unless proven otherwise, really!
Julio comment as usual as he had done several in the past to make Sihanouk look better than anyone.
Julio left out the fact it was Sihanouk who was incompetent and lacked spine to address this problem right after 1954 then 1962 and finally when he was made King of Killing fields second time.
Julio had no clue what really Siam did to Khmers since 1700.
Or best Julio had no clue how Australia aboriginals were suffered genocide done by the Aussies (exiled Brit prisoners and criminals.
Hun Sen and Sihanouk are the same brand made by Viet Cong.
Preach moral issues to Aussies first comrade.
9:58 PM, i don't know what Sihanouk had to do in 1954 and 1962. After all, he was the one who took Thailand to the International Court and recovered Preah Vihear.
Thai troops invaded Preah Vihear in 1954. But there was nothing Cambodia or Sihanouk could do to stop the invasion as Cambodian army was no match for Thai army.
Sihanouk should be given credit for recovering Preah Vihear, be it in 1954 or 1962 it doesn't matter. What matters is that Preah Vihear is ours.
We should all blame Hun Sen for not putting enough troops to protect Preah Vihear in July 2008 because Thailand only used 20 soldiers to invade Preah Vihear in the first place.
As a foreigner, Mr. Jeldres had done more for Cambodia than some of us Khmer people. This is his contribution that must be appreciated.
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