Brad AdamsABC Radio Australia
The United Nations' chief legal counsel called for donors to help fund Cambodia's United Nations backed genocide trial. The tribunal is not funded by UN member states but instead relies on voluntary contributions. Since 2006 it has cost around 50 million US dollars a year to run. Now a former high-profile supporter of the UN-backed tribunal says further funding would be a waste of money.
Presenter: Sen Lam
Speaker: Brad Adams, Human Rights Watch Asia division director
SEN: Brad you were a vocal supporter of the UN backed tribunal before but not now so what changed your mind?
ADAMS: We had very high hopes for this tribunal. For more than 20 years politics had stopped the international community from helping Cambodians bring the Khmer Rouge to justice. There were Cold War politics between the United States, China, the former Soviet Union and Vietnam that stopped it. We thought that the tribunal would be able to bring new facts to the Cambodian people, let them know what really happened. We thought that it would be a chance to create a model court in Cambodia where there would be an independent judiciary and where some of the judges and prosecutors involved would be able to take the skills that they obtained from this process and bring them into the Cambodian courts and try to improve Cambodia's terrible judicial system, which is essentially under the thumb of Prime Minister Hun Sen and the Cambodian government and does its bidding.
Unfortunately none of that has come to pass, it's been a very expensive process, as you said more than 50 million dollars per year, they've conducted one trial which took more than a year. That trial was of a person who had admitted his guilt and still it was dragging on and on to the point that many Cambodians were getting disinterested and losing hope. And now we have a situation where the UN staff of the court want to pursue additional cases, and the Cambodians are blocking it. So the process has become politicised in exactly the way we were hoping it wouldn't.
LAM: Do you think part of the problem might be that the process and indeed the tribunal has been watered down so much that it's no longer meaningful?
ADAMS: It really depends on whether the Cambodian government wants the trial to happen and wants the facts to come out. If they do, then it can be very meaningful. But Hun Sen has made it clear over and over again that he doesn't want the trials, he's said repeatedly he doesn't want them. He has said that it was a mistake to have them, he has said that he hopes they fail. He can't really just pull the plug because of public opinion in Cambodia, so he's doing everything he can to make them less meaningful than they could be. And the consequences that people who were responsible for the deaths of thousands or in some cases tens of thousands remaining free, including possibly some members in his party, which is the main reason most people think that Hun Sen has been trying to block the process.
LAM: But I guess they have to start somewhere and so they're for instance next year hearing from four other quite formally high level Khmer Rouge officials. So that's a good start is it not?
ADAMS: It would be a good end. The problem is it's too late for anything to be credited as a good start because we're years into this and tens and tens of millions of dollars have been spent.
LAM: What would you like to see Brad?
ADAMS: I'd like to see speedy trials of people like Nuon Chea, the former number two to Pol Pot, Ieng Sary, the former foreign minister, Khieu Samphan, the President of the Khmer Rouge; these people have a case to answer and they should answer it while they're healthy, alert and alive. And there's a risk that these men are going to die in custody because the process is just dragging on and on. I'd also like to see many more people investigated and indicted, I'd like to see the Cambodian government to cooperate with those investigations instead of trying to block them.
LAM: So why do you think the UN is persisting with this whole exercise if it's such a farce?
ADAMS: Well the UN has a reputational risk here, they actually didn't want to get into this. Kofi Anan tried to stop it, but Australia, Japan and France in particular insisted that the UN participate. Now they've committed themselves to this process and as a former UN staff member I can tell you there's a lot of institutional inertia in the UN and also a lot of covering one's rear end. So that they don't want this to be seen as a failure, and so they keep throwing as far as I'm concerned good money after bad without insisting on high standards. I mean the statement that the UN released with the Cambodian government yesterday said that this could become a model court, which is really shocking because the UN has long been aware that the Cambodian model is the worst model for international justice or hybrid court that has been created thus far.
Presenter: Sen Lam
Speaker: Brad Adams, Human Rights Watch Asia division director
SEN: Brad you were a vocal supporter of the UN backed tribunal before but not now so what changed your mind?
ADAMS: We had very high hopes for this tribunal. For more than 20 years politics had stopped the international community from helping Cambodians bring the Khmer Rouge to justice. There were Cold War politics between the United States, China, the former Soviet Union and Vietnam that stopped it. We thought that the tribunal would be able to bring new facts to the Cambodian people, let them know what really happened. We thought that it would be a chance to create a model court in Cambodia where there would be an independent judiciary and where some of the judges and prosecutors involved would be able to take the skills that they obtained from this process and bring them into the Cambodian courts and try to improve Cambodia's terrible judicial system, which is essentially under the thumb of Prime Minister Hun Sen and the Cambodian government and does its bidding.
Unfortunately none of that has come to pass, it's been a very expensive process, as you said more than 50 million dollars per year, they've conducted one trial which took more than a year. That trial was of a person who had admitted his guilt and still it was dragging on and on to the point that many Cambodians were getting disinterested and losing hope. And now we have a situation where the UN staff of the court want to pursue additional cases, and the Cambodians are blocking it. So the process has become politicised in exactly the way we were hoping it wouldn't.
LAM: Do you think part of the problem might be that the process and indeed the tribunal has been watered down so much that it's no longer meaningful?
ADAMS: It really depends on whether the Cambodian government wants the trial to happen and wants the facts to come out. If they do, then it can be very meaningful. But Hun Sen has made it clear over and over again that he doesn't want the trials, he's said repeatedly he doesn't want them. He has said that it was a mistake to have them, he has said that he hopes they fail. He can't really just pull the plug because of public opinion in Cambodia, so he's doing everything he can to make them less meaningful than they could be. And the consequences that people who were responsible for the deaths of thousands or in some cases tens of thousands remaining free, including possibly some members in his party, which is the main reason most people think that Hun Sen has been trying to block the process.
LAM: But I guess they have to start somewhere and so they're for instance next year hearing from four other quite formally high level Khmer Rouge officials. So that's a good start is it not?
ADAMS: It would be a good end. The problem is it's too late for anything to be credited as a good start because we're years into this and tens and tens of millions of dollars have been spent.
LAM: What would you like to see Brad?
ADAMS: I'd like to see speedy trials of people like Nuon Chea, the former number two to Pol Pot, Ieng Sary, the former foreign minister, Khieu Samphan, the President of the Khmer Rouge; these people have a case to answer and they should answer it while they're healthy, alert and alive. And there's a risk that these men are going to die in custody because the process is just dragging on and on. I'd also like to see many more people investigated and indicted, I'd like to see the Cambodian government to cooperate with those investigations instead of trying to block them.
LAM: So why do you think the UN is persisting with this whole exercise if it's such a farce?
ADAMS: Well the UN has a reputational risk here, they actually didn't want to get into this. Kofi Anan tried to stop it, but Australia, Japan and France in particular insisted that the UN participate. Now they've committed themselves to this process and as a former UN staff member I can tell you there's a lot of institutional inertia in the UN and also a lot of covering one's rear end. So that they don't want this to be seen as a failure, and so they keep throwing as far as I'm concerned good money after bad without insisting on high standards. I mean the statement that the UN released with the Cambodian government yesterday said that this could become a model court, which is really shocking because the UN has long been aware that the Cambodian model is the worst model for international justice or hybrid court that has been created thus far.
14 comments:
yes, sir, but it's all worth it for my country cambodia.
I have always said it is a farce, courtesy Hun Sen's regime.
Worse, it is an INSULT to the memory of all the victims and their surviving offsprings.
Very sad story indeed.
Thank you Mr Brad Adams for your point raised in relation to the so called cold war between USA,USSR, China and Vietnam.
These interventions led Cambodia into Killingfield and resulted into somewhat 2 million lives lost and others continued with the suffering.
To bring justice to cambodians, a degree of exposures have to be revealed,to heal and to move on, and particularly to curb abuses and violance to INNOCENT cambodians
To walk away with the threat and intimidation is a coward act and allows the suffering continued to VICTIMISED cambodians.
Poor and majority of cambodians are miserably coping with the devils of the PAST and the Present.
It would be helpful if the UN continues and be decisive.
Kaun Khmer
This case is being dragged on and on just to end up in failures. This is hands down from Huynh Kvack. He already said he doesn't want it! Those donors that keep pouring millions of dollars into it just to feed Huynh Kvack, judges, and porsecutors.
What a waste of time. There is no closure for the victims.
yesterday has been a killing fields and today is human right violation by the corrupted government, so what's the point to hunt the murders and prosecute them, they are always there and they always exist, noway UN can eliminate them. they are like a root grasss. stop wasting the millions and millions for such a circus.
It is worth to continue and conclude with all the high profile khmer rouge cadres. It is very justified compare the money that will be spent with the amount of 1.7 million innocent khmers died.
If the tribunal fails its process, the tribunal will breed more crimes in Cambodia as well as around the globe. I and many more people in the world would like to see the CPP down, the abusing govt. We want to see the legacy of khmer rouge no longer exist.
It is pretty unfair when 1.7 million of innocent khmers died and only a few be charged and convicted.
Mr. Adams, you are a big loser when you commended in this article.
10:39,
Brad Adams is right in every way! You need to understand that he is for the victims. He wants the Scambodian gov't to expedite this case as quicky as possible. This case will only end when the suspect is dead in a jail cell of old age. Mark my word.
they ones who complained the loudest are so hypocritical, really! they act as if corrupts of all forms existed only in cambodia. in fact, corruption was as old as the profession of prostitution. i don't think any regime in the world was clear or clean of corruption; it's just some country have law to make it hard to get away while other countries have weak law and so forth. i'm not saying corruption is tolerable in cambodia; i'm just pointing out that it's not fair to harshy criticize my country as if to tarnish its image or good reputation.
I agreed with Adam...this is a wast of time and money...while HS clend took all the money under the name of justic to Killing field (the govt. still use KR to get more aids in order to sustain it regime)...if the wealth is not triggle down to the country side ..new Khmer Rich watchout..while will joint his business partner Taskin :~)) Don't shed your blood - because your mother's milk is expensive..
That is the truth of KRT issue which is related to the effort of the UN human rights in Cambodia tried to work closely to the court so that the judges and prosecutors have a benefit of justice in their mond to catch the KRT. But No one wants to conduct such genuine tribunal, they are just wanted to farce and have benefit from the international donors to support this stupid government. The UN human rights in Cambodia, spent many years (7 years) with the local courts and found no improvement besides worse and worse and made people suffering and suffering, then the UN human rights decided to close the judicial mentor program in 2002. Brad who was the organiser of this project for a good benefit of lawful justice for judges and prosecutors in Cambodia, but those guys did not want it and some said they are old enough with white hair as magistrate, they won't need anymore training. It is rediculous to hear this word which is in the world people says that learning without ending day. Talking about KRT, million of dollars is just like to pour salt into the ocean due to the extreme corruption within the network of Cambodia government.
Hun Sen and other CPP members are lying to Cambodians, they don't want to punish KR leaders at all because Pol Pot, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary, Khiev Samphan worked for Yuons, they are ordered to Kill Khmers, they were at the same side, why they will never be punished.
The case is not about justice wake up the foreign idiot, it's all about how much they can milk out in the process. How really give a damn (In Cambodian goverment) about justice. It's all about their pockets.
I agree with Mr. Adams that the trail should be speedy. Mr. Hun Sen should give more support and more indictment should be done.
As far as Mr. Kofi Anan, he is a dawf. So glad his ass is gone.
there are more to cambodia than just someone is pocketing the money, you know. think long terms, ok. cambodia and need and want this justice for our people and country, you know!
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