Re: Thai senators to file complaint against Hun Xen at the ICC, accusing him of being a war criminal. ICC move against Hun Sen? February 8, 2011. The Nation
Like all of you, I am following the fatal conflict over Preah Vihear with great apprehension for the further loss of lives and the potential out-of-control full-blown warfare, incredulity at the stupidity of politicians, and incredible sadness for the poor innocent civilians living on both sides of the border in the region.
This should have been a non-issue with international law clearly siding with Cambodia, the most glaring being the decision of the International Court of Justice. We should have called it for what it is: the tail wagging the dog of Thai domestic politics, the farce of Prime Minister Abhisit in attempting to divert attention from his domestic imbroglio.
And as such, we, Cambodia, should have nipped the matter at the bud when it first surfaced in mid 2008 by bringing the conflict to regional and international bodies, such as ASEAN and the United Nations, as well as to the signatories of the Paris Peace Agreements, for which I and others had advocated.
Instead, we fell into Thailand’s trap of keeping the conflict a solely bilateral issue.
Look now where it has landed us almost 3 years later? In a weaker, precarious position as we scramble to the United Nations for intervention.
This is when among the current existing CPP officials, I wish Hun Manet was the public face negotiating at the United Nations, rather than the current foreign minister Hor Namhong. Hor Namhong is too easy a target for Thai and international ridicule in light of the controversy surrounding his Khmer Rouge past. We have the law on our side, but we do not have the politics, as Thailand is exponentially more important than us in the political equation.
And this is more a political game than a legal game, even if legal vocabulary and legal institutions are being cited by each side as its vindicator. The most ridiculous of the legalese and legal institution being marshaled must be this bombastic call by Thai senators to try the Cambodian Prime Minister at the ICC for war crimes. It’s bombastic because it’s meaningless grandstanding to obfuscate in the international arena. If anything, the Burmese junta should be the first one to see the face of the ICCC from this region. Mind you, I believe our Prime Minister has crimes he needs to be held responsible for; this is not one of them.
- Theary C. Seng, Phnom Penh
. . . . .
The International Criminal Court (ICC) is an independent, permanent court that tries persons accused of the most serious crimes of international concern, namely genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The ICC is based on a treaty, joined by 114 countries [including Cambodia, but not the United States].
The ICC is a court of last resort [principle of “complementarity”]. It will not act if a case is investigated or prosecuted by a national judicial system unless the national proceedings are not genuine, for example if formal proceedings were undertaken solely to shield a person from criminal responsibility. In addition, the ICC only tries those accused of the gravest crimes.
In all of its activities, the ICC observes the highest standards of fairness and due process. The jurisdiction and functioning of the ICC are governed by the Rome Statute.
Proceedings before the ICC may be initiated by a State Party, the Prosecutor [makes this individual very powerful which scares U.S. from ratifying] or the United Nations Security Council.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) [which awarded Preah Vihear to Cambodia] does not have criminal jurisdiction to prosecute individuals. It is a civil tribunal that deals primarily with disputes between States. The ICJ is the principle judicial organ of the United Nations, whereas the ICC is independent of the UN.
18 comments:
This is really helpful information on the ICC. And well-said analysis, Theary. Thank you!
I am khmer i like to say thanks to the thai senators very much for do the right thinks take ar-hun sen to the International court that the way kick vietname in the ass we will find out more vietname army hie in cambodia ...thanks you again THAI senators and cambodian peole will stay with democracy contry not with communist party ( cpp) you have to push really hard to international court and the world will take your site and combodian will reunite with you when my contry fully be a real democacy in the near future
the world will stay with you if you help combodia out of dectator men ( ar-hun sen ) just stick to that point it really powerful we apreciate for take ar-hun sen to the inernational court ,ae- HUN sen he did a lot bad thinks as you know thanks again thai senators
Theary, I know you are trying to make a point, but I don't know what it is.
Basically the point seems to be that you were right all along.
The international law excursion is misleading and false, international law clearly siding with Cambodia, this is true of the temple but not the surrounding land in question.
But most ridiculous must be the claim that we would be better off if Hun Manet would lead the negotiations. You must be out of your mind.
Thank for Russia, France, china and India who supporting Cambodia to overthrow the government of Abhisit, that not follow what yello shirt told.
he made conflict with Cambodia and Thailand
Thai saket
Anonymous said...
I am khmer i like to say thanks to the thai senators very much for do the right thinks take ar-hun sen to the International court that the way kick vietname in the ass we will find out more vietname army hie in cambodia ...thanks you again THAI senators and cambodian peole will stay with democracy contry not with communist party ( cpp) you have to push really hard to international court and the world will take your site and combodian will reunite with you when my contry fully be a real democacy in the near future
dear khmer siaket ,khmer soren,khmer buriram i am khmer we still love each other no mater what so take and god bless you all
Actually the Government had tried to bring the issue to the UN since the beginning. But it was a diplomatic failure. With Vietnam as head of UNSC at that time, and pressure from Singapore, Cambodia withdrew the Complain.
I have talked about this ICC a long times ago for all victims from Dey Krahoam, from Kg Speu, and from Boeung Kak to file to this court for criminal activities of N7, Ly Yong Phat and Yeay Phu. They cannot find justice for themselves with domestic courts. Therefore only ICC can assist them for their justice.
These three people have committed enough crimes to inflicte to too many victims. we need to hurry before all the victims have died out.
Areak Prey
Hun Sen lost his ties with Vietnam as his son Hun Manet try to play a balance of powers with Korea and Japan business venture. Now that Thailand and Vietnam connection is lost.
Other players like Sam Rainsy can slay Hun Sen regime to end suffering of the people.
Yet HUN SEN YOU OWE ME MONEY YOU Son OF B***H...
Did you KNOW HUN MANET HAVE SEX WITH TEN GIRLS EACH NIGHT?
SOUNDS LIKE HE COULD DEFLOWER ALL THE VIRGINS IN CAMBODIA IN HIS LIFE TIME.... HHEHHEHEHh
PRAHA MAE BAESAIT!!!---AKA
If we talk about Cambodian politics, cigar smoking Seng Theary should go to start from primary school and know how to speak Khmer properly first. It is outrage that she said that Hun Manet should negotiation with the UN rather than Mr. Hor Namhong who is the Minister for Foreign Affairs. If we talk about diplomacy and international relations, Seng Theary can't even equal one hair of Mr. Hor Namhong's leg.
The main objective that Seng Theary is often criticized Cambodian government because she wants to be well known likes disgraced Mu Sokhua but unfortunately, the government never pay attention with her because she is meaningless for the government.
Khmer in Sydney CBD
Dear Dr. Hun Sen and Ten Thousands stars Dr. Hun Manet,
Why do you and your relatives give Kos Trol, sea and lands to Vietnam? Why? and Why?
Why do you and all of your relatives involve a lot of murder cases in Cambodia? Why? Why?
Why do you murder Cambodian K5, 1997 events and so on and so on with lost count? Why?
If you are so good why do you and your families murder Cambodians? Why? And Why?
If you are so good, why do above 90% Cambodians are so poor but you and your relatives are billionaires and millionaires? Why? Why?
Why do you try to kill people from telling the true? Why? Why?
What is the difference from Khmer Rough and you, Sir?
If you are so good why do you block KI from Cambodians?
If you are so good, why do you steal all Cambodian life such as well being, health, cut down Cambodians life expectancy as well? But you and your small group are eat well, sleep well, exercise well, have oversea doctors and best medical treatment from high class private doctors from oversea. Most Cambodians that have no money, your healthcare system left Cambodians patients to die in front of your hospital. Why? Why?
If you are so good why more than 6 millions Vietnamese are living permanently in Cambodia, right now? Why, Dr. Hen Sen? And Why
Everywhere, I walk in Cambodia I see Vietnamese speak Vietnamese every where, why? Why?
Don't you and your families scare of hell for eternity?
When you die can you bring all of your power and money with you?
Dr. Hun Sen and Dr. Big ass lady and his beloved Dr. Hun Manet Please don't put us in jail or kill us for this! We want to live like you and your families do!
Khmers victim of 1997 and K5, Khmer Girl Ms. Rattana Keo
PS
If Dr. Hun Sen and Dr. Hun Manet remove the tablet it is show they are extremely coward and his star are just joy stars given by his daddy not by patriotism. Dr. Hun Manet is very coward as his daddy they only aim to kill innocent Cambodians that all. Dr. Hun SEn and Dr. ten stars Hun Manet are very great at bullying Cambodians and killing Cambodians but cowardly toward Thai and Viet.
CPP are not just corrupted, CPP are extremely corrupt. They are even sell the country such as Kos Trol, Seas, lands, Cambodian people, Cambodian health and well being, all resources in the Cambodia…with lost count. You name it!
Seriously where is the win win policy of Dr. Hun Sen represent? The country is getting smaller and smaller and shame by Dr. Hun Sen and Dr. Hun Manet and his families, his relatives and friends.
To Mr. Thai commentator 3:20pm
Are you so sure that the ICJ verdict of 1962 is just about the temple only but not the surrounding land? Let us go back and have the court review the matter again.
I think Mr. Bora Touch should lead our delegation to the UN, not Hor Nam Hong.
If Hor Ham Hong and his boss can't see that we need UN intervention since day one...they should stay aside.
Bilateral negotiations with Thailand? Give me a break! I'm glad Hun Sen has realized that the 'Thais sign with their hands
and erase with their feet'
Khmer know too well about Thai behavior and a proverb was produced as a result of their deception and untrustworthy.
Thank you Theary Seng for your view regarding UN intervention.
I think it speaks for itself that Theary Seng organizes a conference on "Speaking Truth to Power" and at the same time suggests Hun Manet should lead the negotiations.
Is this really the truth that should be spoken to the power? Is being the son of a dictator really the most appropriate qualification for this job?
Dear Theary
I love you Theary.
Happy valentine's day soon.The Point I love you is:Your National conscience.I hope my daughter will be like you.
LOVEYOUTHEARY2011
Dear Theary,
Excellence! Love you and keep up with your good works for the safe and existence of our beloved country.
Sydney, Australia
Everyone has their say in this conflict but the thais will try to divert all negotiations so that they can keep the conflict alive. Thus far we have not seen anything substantive coming out of negotiation with thailand. it is all political manipulation and one person whos is driving this is mr. vijjajiva. Do we need international mediation to resolve the Preah Vihear conflict? History tells us that any meddling from the UN or ASEAN always leads to a deadend
Irrefutable Proof ICTY Is Corrupt Court/Irrefutable Proof the Hague Court Cannot Legitimately Prosecute Karadzic Case By Jill Starr
http://picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa
(The Documentary Secret United Nations ICC Meeting Papers Scanned Images)
https://sites.google.com/site/jillstarrsite/irrefutable-proof-icty-is-corrupt-court-irrefutable-proof-the-hague-court-cannot-legitimately-prosecute-karadzic-case
This legal technicality indicates the Hague must dismiss charges against Dr Karadzic and others awaiting trials in the Hague jail; like it or not.
Unfortunately for the Signatures Of the Rome Statute United Nations member states instituting the ICC & ICTY housed at the Hague, insofar as the, Radovan Karadzic, as with the other Hague cases awaiting trial there, I personally witnessed these United Nations member states having a substantial conversations, and, openly speaking about trading judicial appointments and verdicts for financial funding when I attended the 2001 ICC Preparatory Meetings at the UN in Manhattan making the iCTY and ICC morally incapable trying Radovan Karazdic and others.
I witnessed with my own eyes and ears when attending the 2001 Preparatory Meetings to establish an newly emergent International Criminal Court, the exact caliber of criminal corruption running so very deeply at the Hague, that it was a perfectly viable topic of legitimate conversation in those meetings I attended to debate trading verdicts AND judicial appointments, for monetary funding.
Jilly wrote:*The rep from Spain became distraught and when her country’s proposal was not taken to well by the chair of the meeting , then Spain argued in a particularly loud and noticably strongly vocal manner, “Spain (my country) strongly believes if we contribute most financial support to the Hague’s highest court, that ought to give us and other countries feeding it financially MORE direct power over its decisions.”
((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((( Instead of censoring the country representative from Spain for even bringing up this unjust, illegal and unfair judicial idea of bribery for international judicial verdicts and judicial appointments, all country representatives present in the meeting that day all treated the Spain proposition as a ”totally legitimate topic” discussed and debated it between each other for some time. I was quite shocked! The idea was “let’s discuss it.” "It’s a great topic to discuss."
Some countries agreed with Spain’s propositions while others did not. The point here is, bribery for judicial verdicts and judicial appointments was treated as a totally legitimate topic instead of an illegitimate topic which it is in the meeting that I attended in 2001 that day to establish the ground work for a newly emergent international criminal court.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
In particular., since “Spain” was so overtly unafraid in bringing up this topic of trading financial funding the ICC for influence over its future judicial appointments and verdicts in front of every other UN member state present that day at the UN, “Spain” must have already known by previous experience the topic of bribery was “socially acceptable” for conversation that day. They must have previously spoke about bribing the ICTY and ICC before in meetings; this is my take an international sociological honor student.
SPAIN’s diplomatic gesture of international justice insofar as, Serbia, in all of this is, disgusting morally!SPAIN HAS TAUGHT THE WORLD THE TRUE DEFINITION OF AN “INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT.”
I represented the state interests’ of the Former Yugoslavia, in Diplomat Darko Trifunovic’s absence in those meetings and I am proud to undertake this effort on Serbia’s behalf.
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