Sunday, March 11, 2012

Dark Clouds Over Angkor


by School of Vice

Dusk at Angkor Wat - jonwhitephotography
The Vietnamese are depicted as crocodiles at Angkor Wat . . . Centuries later, no less than Ho Chi Minh's father - a vagabond – would have a prolonged sojourn in the Cambodian kingdom whilst the country was still under French protectorate rule. He had made Siem Reap one of his main places of abode. Ho's senior would have taken some affront from the crocodile depiction had it been pointed out to him as had many other occupying Vietnamese army officers and generals in the 1980s, or as have Vietnamese tourists today. The Khmer parable about a dying crocodile who lost his own habitat and was rescued and given sanctuary in another pond, yet turned viciously in ingratitude against its rescuers once it had regained its strength and health is probably embedded in this 12th century bas relief . . .  [flikr image]
The Crocodile turns  . . .  Who's Viet? Moi? I'm as Xmer as the next person in Campuchia! And anyway, by that complicated theory about the origins of the earliest Khmer-Mons which insists that the Vietnamese ancestors had originally branched out of that linguistic group, does that not make them our long lost brothers, or cousins, at any rate? Even my great personal friend and far-sighted Hun [is it spelled Hyun?] can claim to have Vietnamese ancestry! He has a point you know, if you are open minded enough to embrace this scholarly theory! So you, yes you, School of Vice should shut up and preach "loving kindness" or "brotherhood of man" instead while we Vietnamese are working towards "reunification" with our estranged Xmer brothers and sisters! Fair? And don't forget, you could in fact be related to Ho Chi Minh's father himself who spent most of his adult life in Campuchia before returning to die in Southern Vietnam - or what is it we Xmers call?  Campuchia Krom? Never mind, I knew it, some of you wouldn't understand no matter how many times I try to put this 'truth' to you. This is why from time to time we send out assassins to eliminate those few who threaten to wreck the peaceful "unity" we have been working so hard to accomplish . . .
"Jayavarman II sanctified as the first devaraja of Kambuja" by Maurice Fiévet

“That there should be in this country one sole sovereign.” 
Royal chaplains reported the deification of the kings on a temple tablet now preserved in the National Museum, Bangkok.

"Elephant Teams Drag Heavy Stones for the Building of Angkor Wat" by Maurice Fiévet
"Death of Angkor: Victorious Thai loot the city and march away prisoners" by Maurice Fiévet
Additional comment: The sheer scale of the structure, and materials [sandstone] used to build monuments like Angkor Wat, may indicate that the Khmer builder-Kings at the time were conscious of the transient nature or the changing fortunes of their Empire. The now empty [looted of artefacts and contents] Prasats and monuments they had built might thus at least serve the repository function of prolonging or preserving the memory, and thereby perpetuating these monuments as testaments to their exploits and legacies. Note the rising smokes and burning flames against the faint towers of Angkor Wat in the background had been tragically re-enacted at [in my view, the second most potent, symbolic Khmer monument] Prasat Preah Vihear in recent armed clashes with the present day Siamese, in particular when the Thai military deliberately directed artillery fire at the Khmer market stalls and wooden halls adjacent the Temple complex. However, even these historical acts of vandalism and lootings had not completely succeeded in eroding the legacy and glory of Angkor which has adorned all Cambodia's post-colonial flags. Nevertheless, India's “replica” project could at last accomplish what the Siamese and Cham invaders could not achieve by extracting in one stroke the memory and meaning out of the icon, and along with that, the sense of nationhood and shared uniqueness that define the Khmer people, their character and ancestral heritage. Further, Angkor Wat was not built to ‘celebrate’ science and engineering as was France's Eiffel Tower, and the Egyptians would be concerned too were they to learn of an attempt to replicate their Great Pyramids on any comparable scale outside of Egypt. Thus, in response to one of our readers who asks whether a "middle path" is perhaps preferable [and although I appreciate the reasoned stance therein] my answer would still be a "No", 'simply' because Angkor Wat is both a national heritage and the Soul of the nation, and for these reasons alone the idea of "sharing" it with another nation, irrespective of historical ties or friendship, make no sense at all. Why did Cambodia go to war with her neighbours in the past? What drove Cambodians to fight in defence of Preah Vihear? Would it make better sense to let the Thais joint-develop the Temple and share the so-called "contested 4.6 km squares of scrub land" instead of shedding the common man's blood? Is it a matter of defending national sovereignty and honour? Well, then what our Indian friends are doing is far more insidious than our Thai neighbours have been doing to us: exploiting, diluting and, ultimately, depriving a weak nation of its uniqueness and sovereign right without even the use of armies or cluster bombs. And please don't count on the idea that India is trying to do the Khmers a huge favour by transporting Angkor Wat through this replica business out of Vietnam's grasp, for what will have been seized off us and out of our possession and reach will then be well beyond our ability to alter or influence. The new "Angkor Wat Twin" will be no more 'Khmer' or ‘Cambodian’; any more than Phimai, Sukhothai, Phnom Rung or Bangkok [Boeung Kak in Khmer origin?] is Khmer or Cambodian. Just look at how the 'Khmers' living throughout Thailand have been systematically robbed of their 'Khmerness' over the last few centuries. The Thais only tolerate diversity or cultural difference within what they deem to be manageable parameters or limits. Despite sharing similar cultural roots, they first had to extinguish any potential of a resurging Khmer nationalist revival or threat to their conquered territories by persecuting Khmer nationalists and depriving the Khmers under their rule of access to Khmer texts and literature. And why kill them off when they can be indoctrinated and used as cannon fodders to kill their own Khmer brothers later on? The Thais are ‘more tolerant’ towards the Khmers than the Vietnamese had been in the same regard, but only when they have no cause to be intolerant towards them in the first instance. In other words, the ones to the East and the Ones to the West are indeed two of a kind . . . And as though all this is not enough, the Cambodians have now to take on the Indians as well!! Holy cows! What drama all this is turning out to be. Unless, of course, it's all just a grand hoax to get School of Vice wound up on a Friday evening? Enjoy the weekend!

TV documentary trailer on Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom



Judging by the tone of most of the remarks or comments posted in response to my piece here on India’s ambitious project to recreate Cambodia’s most famous landmark and national emblem in the Indian state of Bihar, the overall feeling engendered by me [normally on a good day, a guarded optimist!] is one of grave disappointment, if not despair, not so much because I fear that the prospective rivalry or alternative in having such a replicated site outside Cambodia [one report says the envisaged project currently underway in Bihar, India will be even larger than the Khmer original] will leave Cambodia struggling to earn tourism revenue and, Cambodian government officials less well endowed financially, which is far from being the case as I already know that many of these individuals are well off enough to be able to buy a street in New Delhi or New York! What disturbs me is how many Cambodians have become so ‘reductionist’ or expedient in their mental and intellectual outlook to the point of being unquestioningly receptive to events rather than proactively trying to shape them for their nation’s short and long term good. Perhaps, they have lost the true pride and dignified sentiment of a people who had in centuries past initiated and mastered the course of history instead of having it dictated by others. 


We know that Angkor Wat is under the stewardship of a powerful businessman who is widely believed to be ethnically Vietnamese and who is probably planted in the country for the long term advantage and favour he could thereby  proffer to another foreign government or state; that some rogue ships and commercial trawlers have been known to carry Cambodian flags of convenience all over the four oceans; that vast tracts of land have been leased or sold to foreign interests that have left thousands of native Cambodians destitute and landless; that primary forests had been destroyed to make way for this kind of private and corporate convenience; that no matter who owns and milk Angkor Wat as potentially the nation’s biggest cash cow and source of hard earned foreign currencies, the truth and reality remain that the Cambodian people have no say whatsoever in the outcomes of these events. If an ethnic ‘Khmer’ businessman had been in charge of Angkor Wat Archaeological Park instead of an ethnic Vietnamese, there would have been no more plausible grounds for us to expect him/her to sacrifice his/her time and endeavour in service to the nation, anymore than we are expecting Mr Sok Kong to do likewise, since the main chain of events that had led to his/her appointment to the said position had been made in conformity with pre-ordained bias and political agenda in the first instance. After all, it was not Mr Sok Kong who threatened to abolish the monarchy when the current king showed hesitation in granting his royal seal of approval required for the ‘last’ [who knows how many similar treaties had been signed behind closed doors since?] signed revised or supplementary border Treaty with Vietnam, or the granting of exorbitant land leases to the same country. That had been the undisputed achievements of the “Strongman” himself.

However, none of this provides us with legitimate pretext for overlooking what after all is, or will be, the grandest act of cultural theft in human memory. Currently, as it stands Angkor Wat is believed to be the largest religious structure known to man. If the Indians or Hindus are so infatuated with the aesthetics and religious appeal of this structure, and be prepared to realise what every visitor to it could barely dream of: Angkor Wat as it was in its original pristine condition with the five towers gleaming in their golden colours, and the looted statues all restored to their respective locations and states, then there is no reason why they could not bring that dream to life by building its replica anywhere in Cambodia. Cambodians are not going to object to that idea of giving travellers and visitors to the Kingdom the bonus of comparing the original against the replica so long as both are on Cambodian soil, I think. After all, it’s not as if the spiritually awakened 800 million Hindus in India are being starved of places of worship in that vast sub-continent, eh? They are more at risk of dying from lack of food and medical care because one of the world’s largest economies somehow still can’t figure out how to feed and shelter its own great, hungry multitude or to stop Indian doctors from emigrating to the west to practice their profession, except building them more and more temples to worship at. This would be the noblest gift a country like India - one so proud of its own past greatness and whose moral and cultural influence spread far and wide beyond her own shores – could bestow upon another nation with strong historical ties to her. It could be India’s answer to France’s Statue of Liberty which the French people and government gifted to the people of the United States of America.

On the other hand, if the Indians see nothing wrong in exploiting the present bureaucratic malaises afflicting the Khmer people and their philistine, myopic and, above all, propped up political leadership to plunder the country of its Soul and asset, how much can the Khmers rely upon them not to let their sacred cows roam loose among the tourists along those famed, beautifully carved galleries that once may have served to remind the Khmers of the extent of their creative genius and potential as humans, and their sure footed dignity as man and nation among the most distinguished in the civilised world?

We're here by divine right! Cows in a Hindu temple in Banaras; a visitor's photo, c.1910 - columbia.edu

Yes, Cambodia is not in the same state politically as she had been between the 6th and 13th centuries when many of the sacred Prasats and mount temples were constructed, nor are her people in any actual position to influence many of the decisions taken in their name, but that does not mean we should surrender our right to make our moral choices over what’s right and what’s wrong, and to stand our ground to our last breath against whatever we believe to be inimical to the well-being of our fellows and in favour of whatever is conducive to mankind’s welfare. This was what the great Khmer ancestors of the past did, and were they alive today, they would have done exactly the same. The destructions, the tears of the common man, the widespread lootings of antiquities, the great losses in territories that were to come after the fall of Angkor following the cited period of substantive stability and unity above would have caused those ancestors no end of grief by itself. We know, and yet we have persuaded ourselves that since we are not in any realistic position to reverse the course of action, why not try to at least see the positive side of things and even take pride in allowing or consenting [morally] to others paying us their ultimate compliment by virtue of imitating and “publicising” our art and culture?  But is that how it really is, or simply just what we wish to see and find contentment in? Some kind of sour grapes in reverse? Have we not heard of how past Khmer rulers such as Chey Chetha II lost hold of Southern Kampuchea due to their misguided generosity? Had critics and dissidents not tried to warn in the sixties and the early seventies about the calamities that the Hanoi-backed and bred Red Khmer movement would bring to bear on the Cambodian nation? Of course, such discontented souls and dissidents would have been regrettably few in number, but history has not forgotten them, and the course it has since taken has shown them to have been right all along in their measured projections and forebodings; and even though they themselves must have felt somewhat powerless in convincing their fellow countrymen of their intuitive yet heart-felt sentiments.

So why bother writing and speaking out, knowing that your endeavour is expensed in vain? Well, perhaps, it’s a sense of duty some of us owe to posterity to tell them that we had lived true to our conscience, and had borne witness to both man’s virtues and vices before Truth and History.

To the memory of all great and noble Angkorian Kings and Khmer ancestors who built marvellous cosmic stone monuments with your own bare hands, your own sweat, and who endured untold sacrifices out of love for, and devotion to, your own kind and your own descendants: we humbly ask your forgiveness for being powerless to fulfil your noble wishes; to live up to your example, nay worse, to prevent your sacred legacy from being put to ruins in your and our name. For all this we ask for your ahorsikam!©

101 comments:

Anonymous said...

Re: So why bother writing and speaking out, knowing that your endeavour is expensed in vain?

First, thank you so very much for the very well thought-out analysis.

And yes, speaking as just one Khmer, I may be desparate, hopeless in that regard, but I will be damned if I give up.......

JOK/ចុក (Just One Khmer)

Anonymous said...

India is now acting like a hyena of Indo-China going for the kill...

Anonymous said...

Doesn't change a hair on my head what India wants to built out of stone, it just that-a stone building! Have at it while the going is good.

Anonymous said...

We now see another hyena coming to finish Khmer off for good. This time it goes for the soul!

500riel toilet said...

Its ok for India to claim inspiration, but the vision of Angkor belong to the Khmer People, and for India to steal Java VII vision of heaven, its pure theft. So to put it in context, is it Ok to download movies, music from peer-to-peer? And if you're download in this case to make a profit, then its theft.

Khmer have lost their land, their heritage their culture to invading Viet, Siam and now Indians?

Khmer have been influence by Chinese and Indians for centuries.. Angkor is the one thing that any Khmer past, present and future can be proud of.

I've lost all respect for Indians. They have their Taj Mahal. Imagine if some other foreign country replicate that for profit.

Anonymous said...

India should should a temple in Khmer if they want to be close to us once again. But building our Angkor Wat in their country is pure THEFT!

Anonymous said...

Today any brand name product is patented so it is protected by copyright and trademark.
Unfortunately there is no patent for Angkor Wat, but I believe it is protected by our trademark (brand name). So the Indian can copy it but they have to omit the word “Angkor Wat” from their building named ‘Virat Angkor Wat Ram Mandir.’
They can name it ‘Virat Shit Head Ram Mandir.’

We need to ask the French and the Japanese how they worked their problems out, because the Tokyo Tower is modeled after the Eiffel Tower and its design is based on that of Eiffel Tower in Paris.

Go to the link below for the pictures:


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=292252

Anonymous said...

ប្រជាពលរដ្ឋខ្មែរ ជាពលរដ្ឋបាក់ស្បាត លែងហ៊ានធ្វើ អ្វីទាំងអស់ ដេកចាំតែថ្ងៃស្លាប់ ដូច្នេះហើយ បានជាយើង
អោយគេអូស ច្រមុះដូចគោ! មានតែមធ្យោបាយ ១ទេដែល
អាចពញាក់ ពលរដ្ឋខ្មែរបាន គឺចាប់គាត់ជ្រមុជទឹក អោយតែ ឈ្លក់ជិតស្លាប់ ទើបគាត់ភ្ញាក់! បើមិនជឿខ្ញុំ មើលតែរឿងដីធ្លីទៅ ឃើញច្បាស់នឹងភ្នែកហើយ ទាល់តែចោរមកប្លន់ យកដីយកផ្ទះ ទើបគាត់ភ្ញាក់ខ្លួន បើមិនអញ្ចឹងទេ ១នាក់ៗ អេងស្ងាត់ចឺម ដូចចោរលួចសេះ។

ខ្ញុំអស់ចំណេះហើយរឿងខ្មែរ តែនិយាយឡើងវាស្លែង បើមិននិយាយវាស្លាក់ចុកចាប់។ ដល់ថ្នាក់នឹងហើយ នៅតែឈ្លោះគ្នាមិនឈប់ទៀត អស់លោកអឺយ! បបួលគ្នា ហៅស្រុកខ្មែរ ធ្វើអីទៀត? យួនវាយកខ្ទេចទៅហើយ៖ អង្គរជារបស់អាយួន សុខគង់ ទន្លេសាបជាជំរកយួនទាំងមូល សាសនាត្រួតដោយអាទមិឡខ្ញុំយួនទេពវង្ស រដ្ឋាភិបាលនៅ ក្រោមជើងអាខ្ញុំយួនហ៊ុនសែន។ ទៅណាវាអស់លោកអឺយ! វាចប់ត្រឹមនឹងឯង មិនបាច់បកស្រាយអីទៀតទេ! នេះហើយដែលហៅថា ពលរដ្ឋបាក់ស្បាត! ឆ្លុះកញ្ចក់ មើលខ្លួនឯងរៀងៗខ្លួនទៅដឹង ហើយ!!! ថ្ងៃណាទើបភ្ញាក់ខ្លួន???

អំពីខ្ញុំ អាធម្មិកអស់ស្រុក

Takeo said...

Cambodian should learn and understand who is theft and who is good people. Indian are good people and Vietnamese are theft that stole Angkor Wat and your land. Indian replica of Angkor Wat is good for all Cambodian no matter what we thinks. It made Angkor Wat more popular like Pyramid, Eiffel Tower, Empire State building, etc. there are a lot countries replicate those structures and their people happy too.

Anonymous said...

Indian thieves trying to steal our heritage!!

Why cant they built Angkor Wat in our country instead of India? Isnt that theft?

Anonymous said...

9:03 AM

I am not pro Indian per se.
But your question below does not make sense.
“Why cant they built Angkor Wat in our country instead of India?”
Am I missing something?

Anonymous said...

The monkeys and the rats need this Angkor Wat India is building to house them. Animals get better treament in India than people do?

Anonymous said...

We "Khmer" must partition to the UN and the UNISCO to stop the Indian Thieves from building this project NOW. I am asking everyone to start the partition and make our self heard loudly. This is pure WRONG. What a SHAMEFUL NATION TO STEAL OTHER HERITAGE.

Anonymous said...

I am not pro Indian per se.
But your question below does not make sense.
“Why cant they built Angkor Wat in our country instead of India?”
Am I missing something?

9:17 AM

Why cant they build Angkor Wat in our(Cambodia) country instead of India.

10:05 AM. UN and the UNISCO are useless. Angkor Wat is our yet, its is being leased and under the management of the Vietnamese Tycoon for 99 years.

What has UN and UNISCO done about AH VietMinh HUN SEN/CPP, leasing our heritage to the Vietnamese for protection and management?

NOTHING! UN and US are not interested if they gain no benefit.

Anonymous said...

Khmer people should take the following steps to save Angkor Wat and Cambodia:

Primo:
Mount a mass protestation against the puppet government of Hun Shit, demanding it to rescind Angkor Wat's lease. Leasing Khmer soul Angkor Wat to Vietnamese Sok kong is an intolerable crime. Hun Shit must be hanged.

Segundo:
Make a popular petition to UNESCO or whatever entity that handle this kind of case and require India government to stop this Angkor replica project from proceeding.

Tertio:
At this time, Khmer people must realize that since 1993, everything has evolved sharply, especially the presence of the Vietnamese inside Cambodia.
With this mass influx of the Vietnamese, the chance for any opposition party to win future national election has eroded accordingly.

We have a choice to make: either we die, through peaceful demonstration, to make Cambodia live or we live (die without meaning later) to make Cambodia die.

Anonymous said...

Is thee anything that nthe Indians don't know how to steal and copycat this this day and age ? From CD, DVD, novies, PCs, softwares, whores from streets of delhi call centres asking to swithn phone, electricty, computer technogies, welfare cheating, $10 tax returns, shonky doctors, snake charmers, magicians, cow dung worhippers, the list goes on.

Anonymous said...

Khmer people should take the following steps to save Angkor Wat and Cambodia:

Primo:
Mount a mass protestation against the puppet government of Hun Shit, demanding it to rescind Angkor Wat's lease. Leasing Khmer soul Angkor Wat to Vietnamese Sok kong is an intolerable crime. Hun Shit must be hanged.

Segundo:
Make a popular petition to UNESCO or whatever entity that handle this kind of case and require India government to stop this Angkor replica project from proceeding.

Tertio:
At this time, Khmer people must realize that since 1993, everything has evolved sharply, especially the presence of the Vietnamese inside Cambodia.
With this mass influx of the Vietnamese, the chance for any opposition party to win future national election has eroded accordingly.

We have a choice to make: either we die, through peaceful demonstration, to make Cambodia live or we live (die without meaning later) to make Cambodia die.

Sarak

Keo Cham said...

What about an alternative? Have we considered a middle path?

First, let me say, that I support the stance that India should consult and out of respect and protocol, seek permission from the Cambodians first for doing this.


That aside, what so what is the alternative? Well, building another Angkor, raising to its "pristine" condition, can be an advantage, this adulation can be seen past the injury or insult.

Can you imagine that those who are in India or goes to India to see Angkor in its new condition and beauty will not be ever more intrigue by the original holy site? I think that seeing how beautiful Angkor was at its glory will fascinate people even more and compel people to seek out the original beauty at the true Angkor.

People go to see Angkor, after all, for its majestic relic. The beauty lies in it's age as much as in its architecture.

For this alternative, the Cambodian government and the Government of India, can work out dual-tourist attraction program for the city of Bihar and that of Siem Riep. A sister-city or sister-province can be established for these two location. Through India and their fascination with Angkor, they will direct more of their domestic as well as international tourists to Siem Riep.

And under contractual obligations, portions of proceed from the new dedication to original Angkor of this project can go directly to the restoration of old Angkor and for Siem Riep infrastructure development - minus Sok Kong out of the picture.

I think what we have here, under this understanding and middle path, is a new traditional ties with India, which Cambodia can use to balance the forces of Vietnam and other of its more powerful neighbors. I think it is both strategically important to build stronger ties with India, as well as culturally important for the people of India and Cambodia to reconnect through this cultural ties.

Of course, without this spirit of understanding, and respect of the original Angkor and its interests at center, we Cambodian should never agree in spirit to mere exploitation of our ancestor's sweat and their spiritual efforts.


School of vice, would you consider this middle path?

-
Keo Cham

Anonymous said...

It is hard to say that this is a stealing of heritage right now, but in the long run when business of the replicate temple will go smoothly, tourists will no doutgh forget that Angkor Wat belonged to Khmer . Then it would be a real stealing and if Khmers do not start to protest to the UNESCO about this heritage right abuse, especially by the so called #legal cambodian government #, this is going to be a ' fait accompli' like the present vietnamese domination. So......?

Anonymous said...

Dear Lok Keo Cham
Your co sharing of our khmer heritage is attractive and sound if and only if Sok Kong is out of the run. He will be out if the puppet Hun Sen government decides so and this is not going to happen since Sok kong is the main economical vietnamese grasp over khmer economy. So our khmer double problem still remains up to date :
1) ousting the Hun Sen government out of power,
2) chasing the vietnameses out of Cambodia.

Anonymous said...

10:37 AM. Do you mean the middle path sort of like how we helped/taught the Siem how to build temples and mini Angkor Wat, even after they have stole and sold our national heritage and identity.

Because we are small, weak, they twist our identity saying we never really owned anything? Siem claiming and teaching their children and students that it was the Siem Empire that built Angkor Wat and Preah Vihear, Khmer Empire are just made up words by the french?

Come on, talk to any Siem, they will tell you that is what the government are teaching them. Yet they believe the government, just like Khmer believing CPP/Vietnamese are liberators not INVADERS).

You still want the Indian to copy our Angkor Wat, next they will claim We(Khmer) never became Hindu, they as Indians have the right to the temple because they were and are Hindu.

Especially as our nation is governed by a Bunch of Vietminh Monkeys lived on borrowed time from the Pol Pot regime.

If the Indians cares about our nation, they need to take out AH Hun Sen in the head.

Anonymous said...

Whatever, we must annul the Angkor Wat's lease first.

It will not matter if 1 billion people go to visit Angkor as long as this leach Sok Kong still controls Angkor.

How stupid are we by allowing this traitor Hun Sen to lease Angkor Wat to a Vietnamese?
If we are this stupid, we do not deserve a country to live.

Does Ah Kwack Hun Sen have the right to lease Angkor Wat?

Can any Doctor or anybody answer this question?

Anonymous said...

Angkor Wat is a real Cambodian national treasure. It is many centuries old and original. Nobody can copy its ages. It is not new and fake. They can copy all they want, but will never be the same. Las vegas has fake eiffel tower, pyramid. but tourists still travel to see pyramid in egype. They not only want to see sculpture, but want to see different sites in the country too. I think more tourists are interested going to visit east asia than south asia(india). Forget about Angkor wat in india. It will smell like curry. mreas prov

Anonymous said...

10:23 AM asked:

“ Why cant they build Angkor Wat in our(Cambodia) country instead of India. “

I understand the meaning of your question 100%.
But do you understand why the Indian want to build an Angkor Wat replica in India in the first place?
They build it so that the tourists will go there to visit and they will make money.
That is why your question does not make any sense.
Unless you think that they build the replica in India to help the tourists coming to Cambodia then it makes sense. But I don’t think they are that stupid.
Do you get my point?

Anonymous said...

why do we all starting to cry about Indian building the replica of Angkor Wat?

We lost Angkor Wat years ago since our stupid prince Naranith leased it to the Malaysian ,and now
Hun Sen let the Vietnamese have Angkor Wat and runs it for profit everyday by yuon, Sok Kong. Why don't we all Khmer do something about it? Go to the root of the problem .

To the Indians , when you finish building the replica, we like to make a please to you " House our three monkeys, they are good to keep the tourists entertain at the front gate "

Anonymous said...

KI Media Team,

Could you post this article on your site, please?

Pissed off

*********************************
March 6, 2012


Insight: China Gambles on Cambodia's Shrinking Forests

By REUTERS


BOTUM SAKOR, Cambodia (Reuters) - It was once the unspoiled jungle home for tigers, elephants, bears and gibbons. But today Botum Sakor National Park in southwest Cambodia is fast disappearing to accommodate a much less endangered species: the Chinese gambler.

"This was all forest once," says Chut Wutty, director of the Natural Resource Protection Group, an environmental watchdog based in the capital, Phnom Penh, gesturing across a near-treeless landscape.

"But then the government sold the land to rich men."

He means Tianjin Union Development Group, a real-estate company from northern China, which is transforming 340 sq km (130 sq miles) of Botum Sakor into a city-sized gambling resort for "extravagant feasting and revelry," its website says. A 64-km (40-mile) highway, now almost complete, will cut a four-lane swathe through mostly virgin forest.

National parks and wildlife sanctuaries in Cambodia, an impoverished country known for its ancient temples and genocidal Khmer Rouge regime of the 1970s, could soon vanish entirely as deep-pocketed Chinese investors accelerate a secretive sell-off of protected areas to private companies, warns Chut Wutty and other activists.

The land sales also point to another trend: the expansion of Chinese economic interests in Southeast Asia's undeveloped frontiers, which comes at a delicate time as tensions simmer over China's sovereignty claims in the disputed South China Sea and the United States vows to re-engage with the region.

Last year, the Cambodian government granted so-called economic land concessions to scores of companies to develop 7,631 sq km (2,946 sq miles) of land, most of it in national parks and wildlife sanctuaries, according to research by the respected Cambodia Human Rights and Development Organization

(ADHOC).

The area of concessions granted has risen six-fold between 2010 and 2011, partly a reflection of booming Indochina trade as China's economic influence spreads deeper into Southeast Asia.

Foreign conservation groups in the country have remained silent about the sell-off for fear of wrecking their relationship with the government of mercurial Prime Minister Hun Sen. But Cambodians dislodged from concession areas are starting to find their voices.

To Part 2

Anonymous said...

Part 2:

ANTI-CHINESE SENTIMENT

Fishing families in Botum Sakor say that Union Group is using strongarm tactics to relocate them deep inland.

"It's been my land since my grandparents' generation," says Srey Khmao, 68, from Thmar Sar. "I lived peacefully there until Union Group threatened the villagers and told them to remove their belongings."

Such protests could ratchet up anti-Chinese sentiment in Cambodia, where China is both the largest foreign investor and source of foreign aid. That aid, often in the form of no-strings-attached infrastructure projects, has made Hun Sen less reliant on Western donors, who generally demand greater transparency and respect for human rights.

It has also eroded the influence of foreign conservation groups in Cambodia, many of whom work in the same protected areas now being sold off. Their criticism has remained muted for fear Hun Sen will do what he did to British environmental watchdog Global Witness in 2005, and kick them out.

"The days of donor-dependency are over," says a foreign conservationist working in Cambodia, who asked not to be identified. "Much more money is coming into this country through direct investment, especially from Chinese companies, so the carrot-and-stick incentive that NGOs (non-governmental groups) might have had 10 years ago isn't as powerful these days."

Land-grabbing, illegal logging and forced evictions have long been common in Cambodia. But by granting land concessions, the government has effectively legalized these practices in the country's last remaining wilderness, say activists.

Companies from Cambodia, Vietnam and other countries are also exploiting the land sell-off, mainly to develop rubber plantations and other agribusinesses. But the most lucrative projects -- mining for gold and other minerals -- are dominated by the Chinese, says the Cambodian Center for Human Rights.

"THIS IS CHINA"

Cambodia's 2001 land law forbids economic land concessions greater than 10,000 hectares (24,700 acres). But China's Union Group won a 99-year lease thanks to a 2008 royal decree which carved out 36,000 hectares (89,000 acres) from Botum Sakor and redefined it.

In the same year, a contract was signed by Minister of Environment Mok Mareth and the chief of Union Group's board of directors Li Zhi Xuan. The company was granted a further 9,100 adjoining hectares last year to build a hydroelectric dam.

To Part 3

Anonymous said...

Part 3

Union Group has big ambitions for the area, including a network of roads, an international airport, a port for large cruise ships, two reservoirs, condominiums, hotels, hospitals, golf courses and a casino called "Angkor Wat on Sea," according to the contract and its website.

It will sink $3.8 billion into its Botum Sakor resort, a figure quoted to rights groups in February by Bun Leut, governor of coastal Koh Kong province. It covers an area almost half the size of Singapore. People in the area say it will be called either "Seven-headed Dragon" or "Hong Kong II."

"Those are just rumors. It hasn't been named yet," says Cheang Sivling, a Chinese-speaking Cambodian manager for Union Group's road-building operations.

The four-lane highway, built at a cost of about $1.1 million a mile, is part of a system of roads Union Group will run across Botum Sakor, adds Cheang Sivling.

This alarms Mathieu Pellerin, a researcher with the Cambodian human rights group Licadho, who notes that newly built roads give logging operators greater access and could accelerate the destruction of forests.

"Botum Sakor is melting away," he says.

The worksites along the highway house a number of Chinese engineers, and are guarded by Cambodian soldiers.

Access to the resort area itself is blocked by a provincial park ranger who, when Reuters tried to pass, threatened to radio for back-up from military police, who along with the police routinely provide security for big concessionaires.

"This is China," he says firmly.

Nearby, at the picturesque seaside village of Poy Jopon, people were preparing to leave after signing away their property to Union Group -- under duress, they say.

"I'm upset, but there is nothing I can do about it," says Chey Pheap, 42, a grocery store owner. "This is the way society works." He and the remaining villagers will soon be moved to houses some 10 km (six miles) inland. When asked to describe the new area, one of Chey Pheap's neighbors says: "No work, no water, no school, no temple. Just malaria."

Nhorn Saroen, 52, was among hundreds of families who have already been moved from another fishing village, called Kom Saoi. "We were told it was Chinese land and we couldn't cut down a single tree," he says. "Some people refused to leave. Their land was taken and now they have nothing."

He was provided with a house in a purpose-built village far inland, robbing him of his main livelihood: fishing. The houses surrounding Nhorn Saroen's are deserted. Many families cannot make ends meet in the remote area and have moved away, he says.

To Part 4

Anonymous said...

Part 4

Passing just behind his house was a moat which delineated Union Group's land. It was three meters deep (10 ft) and twice as wide, and ran for many kilometers. For the villagers, it symbolized China's power and remoteness.

"Even though we hate the Chinese, what can we do?" says Nhorn Saroen.

Union Group's website praises Cambodia for its "sound public order" and "simple and honest" people. Allegations of forced evictions are "a problem between the Cambodian government and its people," says a company spokeswoman, who declined to be identified.

Union Group obeyed Cambodian laws and worked closely with the Chinese government, she adds. Its road network was welcomed by people in the area. "Residents said they finally saw real roads and cars," she says. "In this regard, I think we have contributed to Cambodia."

She confirmed that Union Group is spending "billions" of dollars on the project.

CORE AREAS

The government granted a record number of economic land concessions in 2011, says Pellerin, but keeping track of them is impossible. Information on hard-to-reach concessions or the firms leasing them is not systematically maintained.

The government's contract with Union Group is "shocking," says Pellerin. "Cambodia is giving away 36,000 hectares to a foreign entity with little if any oversight or obvious benefit to the people."

As part of that contract, Union Group deposited $1 million with the Council for the Development of Cambodia, but pays no fees for the first decade of its lease.

Leasing protected areas generates minimal money, insisted Sem Saroeun, director general of finance and administration at the Ministry of Environment. The government charged even deep-pocketed Chinese firms a mere $1 per hectare per year.

"This is a voluntary price and the funds go to the protection and conservation of the environment," he says. New anti-graft laws prevent additional under-the-table payments, he adds.

But Seng Sok Heng of Community Peace Network, a group which helps track land concessions for the pro-transparency website Open Development Cambodia, says the government is charging up to $10 per hectare per year, and that additional bribes were common.

Environment official Sem Saroeun said he didn't know the total area leased out by the government, but added that concessions were only granted on land surrounding protected areas. "The core areas are still protected," he says.

But this claim is upended not only by Reuters' trip to fast-shrinking Botum Sakor, but also by satellite images and research by groups. Maps produced by Licadho show huge leaseholds at the heart of wildlife sanctuaries such as Boeng Per and Phnom Aural, while 19 concessions have swallowed up almost all of Virachey national park on Cambodia's remote border with Laos and Vietnam.

To Part 5

Anonymous said...

Part 5

GROWING RESENTMENT

With Chinese investors fanning out across fast-growing Southeast Asia, festering resentment over land-hungry projects could spell trouble for Beijing, especially after the United States signaled last year that it would strengthen economic and diplomatic influence in the region.

A new generation of Chinese multinationals is facing pockets of resistance in a region they once dominated without question.

Myanmar's reformist government apparently bowed to popular discontent by cancelling a $3.6 billion Chinese-led dam project in September, marking a turning point in relations with its giant neighbor. A similar movement opposes trans-Myanmar pipelines that will transport oil and gas to China.

Through all this, Cambodia has been a reliable ally for China. Foreign direct investment from China was $1.19 billion in 2011, almost 10 times that of the United States, estimated the government's Council for the Development of Cambodia, which Hun Sen chairs.

China has also been generous with aid, pledging more than $2 billion since 1992, mostly in soft loans, according to Finance Minister Keat Chhon in February.

This "blank cheque diplomacy" threatened to "erode donor efforts to use assistance to promote improved governance and respect for human rights," a U.S. diplomat said in a cable released last year by the anti-secrecy group Wikileaks.

"There is a growing sense -- and this is not unique to Cambodia -- that Chinese investors and employers are problematic," says Sophie Richardson, Asia Advocacy Director for Human Rights Watch. "At the same time, it's not as if the Cambodian government is stepping up to defend its own citizens."

Hun Sen has publicly praised China for placing no conditions on its aid, but the U.S. diplomat noted in the cable that Chinese companies had been rewarded with non-transparent "access to mineral and resource wealth."

And land: leaseholds offer potentially strategic locations for expanding Chinese interests. Union Group's vast concession has easy access to both the Gulf of Thailand -- the traditional backyard of U.S. military ally Thailand -- and the hotly contested South China Sea.

For activist Chut Wutty, Union Group's activities smack of colonisation. "You think after 99 years that this land will be returned to Cambodia? You think they'll kick the Chinese out? No way. It's forever."

(Additional reporting by Beijing newsroom; Editing by Jason Szep and Robert Birsel)

******************************

What a tragedy for Cambodia!

Thank you KI Media Team!

Pissed off

Anonymous said...

Bravo all Cambodian leaders, especially the most horrible Hun Sen!

First they got Cambodians divided and persuaded them to kill each other on the battlefields.

then they killed their own people with their stupidity.

Now they destroy the very land they call home.

The Chinese will take as much as possible what is under the ground and on the ground while the Vietnamese is slowing absorbing the land itself!

Chinese aids come with no string attached! I have heard of that message since Sangkum Reast Niyum!

Billions into Cambodia, Trillions out of Cambodia into China with some millions go into the crooked, stupid and greedy leaders of Cambodia and what remains on the land are poverty, tear and suffering of the people of Cambodia.

Pissed off

Anonymous said...

Correction:

"The Chinese will take ...while the Vietnamese is slowly absorbing the land itself!"

Pissed off

Anonymous said...

From KI reader,

Mr. Piss off, next time just give them the link. I think they are smart enough to post it for you.

Anonymous said...

Below is link that Mr. Piss off wants KI to post.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/China+gambles+Cambodia+shrinking+forests/6267674/story.html

Mr. Piss off are you for real or somebody tries to use your Pen name?

Anonymous said...

Please don't worry that much, because it will not harm our national soul and proud. The replica of Angkor Wat will not able to replace the Real Prasat Angkor Wat.
After visiting the replica, most of these people still want to come to visit the original one (Angkor War). To come to visit Angkor Wat one time of our life, is like the Muslim people go to Mecca.
Angkor Wat is not the place to spend time for fun or for business. Angkor Wat is the place of researching of the Foundation of our Khmer believe and the philosophy of leadership of our Khmer ancestors. We should be proud of us, it means other people pay great respect to our Khmer ancestors, Khmer Nation and to all the descents of the Khmer people.

Anonymous said...

Angkor Wat is mysterious to Indian because Indian never build huge temple of her own, to say or think that Indian influenced Khmer civilization for many centuries including building, arts, dances, and royal courts is in doubt and also in question, if we compare the arts, dances, architectures and royal court are completely difference. Some foreigners think that Khmer architecture faithfully copy from India but Hindu temple in India no way near to Khmer temple in similarity. For hundred of years until 1960s India did not know Angkor Wat the biggest Hindu temple in the world exist, now they start to realise that may be Indian who copy Khmer arts and brought Hindu from Khmer to India, who know?.

For Khmer who builded Angkor Wat and also builded similar temple across South East Asia included Thailand, Laos, Viet, Malaysia possibly Indonesia as well so we’re Khmer has our own architectures, arts, dances long before Brahman & Naga story. May be Brahman brought Hindu from Naga queen to India.

Anonymous said...

Minister of Information should know it is effect for new generation and identity of the Khmer nation after minister has gone, what significant of symbol of Khmer flag, should we redesign our flag? Even Thais has not dare to put Angkor Wat on her flag. India is a big Hindu practice in the world and has no possession of big Hindu temple, India is jealous for Khmer small country who practice Buddhism possessing the huge Hindu temple in the world. Indian government and NGO have plan of try to claim Angkor Wat as her own, they sent many Indian expert to destroy Angkor Wat by used acid to clean Angkor Wat.

People know well about Indian rival China who influenced Cambodia in economy and culture recently so India has to do something unpredictable like try to copy Angkor Wat and Indian government pretend to know nothing about replica of Angkor Wat and put this matter to NGO which clever orchestrate.

If Cambodian government and minister did nothing to protect our identity and Khmer interest history will record him as what?

Look at this statement ‘may be Indian faithfully copy Khmer art, we never know. If we compare the temple in Cambodia and temple in India there is none of Indian temple like Cambodian temple, Indian temples are relatively small and its art like doll display. If Hindu is biggest religion of Indian why Hindu temple builded by Khmer are vast concentration in Cambodia during Angkorian period rather than India?

Remember Indian expert used acid to clean up Angkor Wat but now the sand stone decay and melt down and her art form are disappeared, these damages is irreversible.

Please do not trust India, poor country do poor thing, when I made visit to Angkor Thom which under Indian renovation and I did not see any progress except I did see Indian expert hanging around and bossy to Cambodia labours. I do no know where these Indian expertises try to copy or steal the art model or just figure out what to do or to steal.

We Khmer who build countless temple we should be the one who expert for fixing our temple. Of course we need fund’.

Incomes from tourist $40 million per year will be enough to repair the temples and have enough to build the biggest one if India decide not to respect Khmer identity and copy right.

Anonymous said...

4 28am. I know you are a FUCKING KHIEV KHANARITH, another FUCKING Vietnamese leecher survived the Khmer Rouge Regime.

Angkor Wat belongs to Khmer not FUCKING CPP or Ah FUCKING Chkae Hun Sen or AH fucking Vietnamese chkae Sok Kong.

It belong to the Khmer people and Khmer nation, the money should be going into creating jobs and better living standard for the nation, not to the FUCKING CPP dogs. It also means its our national heritage, our symbol of pride, when we die, I want my kids to know about our Angkor Wat, where it onced survived from the ambitious neighbors, I don't want to tell why kids why it's in India. Understand Ah FUCKING Chkae KHIEV KHANARITH!

Anonymous said...

Our history after Angkorian period from one leader to another claim to fix Khmer problem but none of those leaders could do, one claim to be better than the other one but the true is when they have the power they practice the same method other word dictatorship in their mind.

We Khmer can not wait to see leadership change in order to fix problem, we want to see who in charge to fix the problem rather than the one who will inherit.

The $40 million Angkor Wat fees from tourist should use to repair and build bigest new one. The Angkor Wat replica project will spend $20 million, so we can do as well if we can not stop Indian project or copy our identity right.

We do not want to see Khmer identity in crisis for future to come, therefore, the government of today must act for the interest of the nation. If this government do not act who the hell will?

Anonymous said...

This is not about tourism for a sake of few this is about identity of the Khmer nation, this is a worship place and world record history at Angkor (such dinosaurs dispay at bas relief) for people around the world to study.

800 million indian can worship at Angkor as muslim worship to Meca (only one Mecca not two Mecca). Angkor is not far from India

Indian expertist came to Cambodia to steal and copy the Angkor architecture for many years ubdetected and now they declair replica of Angkor. Almost 2 decades Angkor Thom under Indian responsible for repair never finish it, they just came to document it and sent back to India.

India know that she can do this without consequences because our information minister is happy about Indian replica project.

Anonymous said...

An article that came from fear!

There is no way we can see our culture spread in other country.

Karl [Kalonh] Chuck said...

Mr. School of Vice,

Thanks a million for such wonderful eye openening thoughts over India's replication of Angkor Wat and Dark clouds over Angkor.

May I join you, Mr. School of Vice, in saying:

"For all this we ask for your ahorsikam!©"

Sincerely yours,

Kalonh Chuck

Anonymous said...

Why we have to worry about it? people can replicate Mona Lisa, Taj Mahal, Angkor Wat, the great pyramid; but it will be not the same as original. Let them build the temple, because they admire angkor wat. This is good news for us.

Anonymous said...

For now Angkor Wat is unique soon after the Indian copy it and it is no longer unique!

For 20 million dollars the Indian government can build a brand new bigger Angkor Wat! And what can Cambodian government do under AH HUN SEN Vietcong slave regime for 20 million dollars? AH HUN SEN Vietcong slave can’t do shit for 20 million dollars not even building a simple road!

It is good to know that Indian government supported the Vietcong occupation of Cambodia in 1979! The Indian government and the Vietcong government are the most anti-China element in Asia! The Indian and the Vietcong are plotting to do more damages to Cambodia for being friendly toward China! The Vietcong stole Cambodian land and now the Indian stole Cambodian national pride and soul!

Anonymous said...

It is so sad and so sick that Khmer people keep claiming Angkor Wat belong to Khmer.

When will we know how to focus on the real problem?

Is it Angkor Wat now belong to a Vietnamese named Sok Kong?

Should we find a way to push this Vietnam's puppet, Ah Kwack Mer Kbot Cheat, to rescind this Khmer soul lease? This is the top priority beside implementing the the 1991 Paris peace accord.

Please stop barking on the wrong tree.

Anonymous said...

Angkorwat is a property of Siamriap people
but money come from Angkorwat go directely to Sok An and Sok Kong pockets.
They steals per year $10M each.

Anonymous said...

Angkorwat is a property of Siamriap people
but money come from Angkorwat go directely to Sok An and Sok Kong pockets.
They steals per year $10M each.

Anonymous said...

sometimes i wonder what india is doing, is this a license for others like the siem, etc to do the same to khmer temples? later down the line, somebody's going to say well india did it, why not siem do it, too, etc... it is good for khmer people and cambodia to protest and take mention the legality of it all e.g. copy right law, etc, so they cannot violate khmer's copy rights of national ionic, etc... if cambodia agree some kind of diplomatic exchange, i think it is ok, but just replicate cambodia's arts that have law prohibits it like that, you know! every country in the world now have copy rights law, so people can't just plagiarize other's works without their permission, you know!

Anonymous said...

bad example for preah vihear, because the icj still working on the preah vihear case. if india is allowed to do this illegally, the court will see that as ok for siem to replicate cambodia's preah vihear, etc, too... so, india is setting bad example for others! like i said, it's a legality issue, not so much replication issue, you know! any country that want to replicate cambodia's temples, etc should pay cambodia first to do that and make sure cambodia agrees to it by law, of course. do not just come steal or take advantage of cambodia or whatever, ok! how do you see it or like it if others is doing this to your national icons, etc? think seriously about it! isn't that the reason people came up with copy rights law, trademark law, patent law, etc? so people can't just plagiarize like this without their permission? then why bother to have these laws, if people is allowed to break or violate them?

Anonymous said...

how people in influential position steal money from cambodia in cambodia is through loopholes of the law called bribery or under the table, mostly, you know. it will take a strong enforcement of anti-corruption law or it's just a joke because then everybody else start doing it, then they do not respect the law and the law become ineffective. that's why i kept saying two wrongs don't necessarily make it right. there are elements in society or even outside khmer society, i.e. khmer haters or cambodia haters, do not want to see cambodia develop, grow, advance, prosperous, etc, etc... they are called the enemies of cambodia.

and history indicate youn and siem were real historical enemies of cambodia. they looted from khmer empire like the historical painting above shows, and they often expanded into khmer lands and territories, this was doing on for centuries before there were international law, etc came in place to protect or prevent those kind of greedy countries from taking advantage of another country like cambodia, for instance. well, we know today is different as there are international law, etc to prevent them from doing that again. but it shows siem and youn did just that a coupl hundred or so years ago. maybe they copy from other countries out there too that did the same like the american, some european power like british, french, spanish, portugal, mostly. i think youn and siem learned from those countries. as for cambodia, i think we, khmer people should learn from them as well so we can take back our ancestors' land from siem and youn. khmer people should look for ways to retaliate them, i think, especially if they continue to take advantage of cambodia like they did in the past! what goes around comes around, you know. the cycle of history and civilization goes on and on on this planet, one day somebody takes advantage of cambodia, others day cambodia will do the same to them... the cycle goes on...

Anonymous said...

Re: Holy cows! What drama all this is turning out to be. Unless, of course, it's all just a grand hoax to get School of Vice wound up on a Friday evening? Enjoy the weekend!

Holy Cows!, yes...Mr. School of Vice, Holy Cows!!!:

Maybe it's time for all of us Khmer to turn in on Hun Sèn and cronies....before we lose our soul completely?


Have yourself a pleasant one too!

Peking Duck

Anonymous said...

people don't realize this, but when they hurt cambodia, they hurt themselves as well. when they deprive cambodia, they deprive services and convenience cambodia can provide. when they isolate cambodia, they hurt themselves in the long run. so, stop hurting cambodia, ok! there are more to cambodia than you think , ok instead help create cambodia into a productive world community of nation, too, ok! stop depriving and hurting and taking advantage of cambodia, ok! that's so evil and greedy, you know, not to mention illegal as well!

Anonymous said...

do the right thing is all cambodia and khmer people ask for!

Anonymous said...

don't come back and say khmer people didn't protest, we did protest numerous times about this issue! it's the legality issue, you know!

Anonymous said...

it's both political issue and legality issue. i think khmer people are very political in nature, get used to that, ok!

Anonymous said...

It is no big deal if the Indian build a small replica like the one in Thailand but for the Indian to build a replica in a grand scale even bigger and what is the fucking point? By building bigger Angkor Wat with 21st century technologies, the Indian are trying to prove that they are smarter than the Cambodian? What is the fucking point?

The Indian are setting a very bad example for the rest of the world!

Anonymous said...

The Indian and the Viet are plotting to destroy Cambodia!

Anonymous said...

Who cleaned Angkor Wat with Acid?

Where did the acid water go to? The foundation of Angkor?

Right now if you go to the top of Angkor wat, you can see the walls get loose like powder.

This is Maha Dechor Kbot Cheat era. Everything goes down to the drain...

Anonymous said...

3:56 PM,

In hindsight I should have done that! Silly me! Why didn't I think of that? Getting too old?

I guess I am getting too old and the brain is not functioning the way it should anymore.

Thank you for posting the link to the article on vancouversun.com

Pissed off

Anonymous said...

Ah Peking Duck, Ah CPP supporter, What do you think of Ah Vientnamese Sok King Chkae owning And managing Khmer Angkor Wat?

Anonymous said...

Hey don't "Ah" me like that my good Buddy 5:21 AM, and don't paint me either, okay Mister?

Now, as for your question, I hope the rest of KI readers don't scream and yell at us because of its irrelevancy. However, we have to take it up to Hun Sen if we want Sok Kong's issue resolved. Having Sok Kong owned and managed Angkor Wat STINKS as hell!!!

Hope this help answer some of your concerns. Until we meet again, try to behave yourself, you hear? Thanks.

Peking Duck

Anonymous said...

Peking Duck, why are you then still supporting CPP and still making excuses for Ah Hun Sen STINKING regime. The country needs its opposition leader back in the country for the coming election, the only real democratic party against Ah CPP chkae, agree?

Anonymous said...

Agree to the second part but not to the question part of your comment. Thanks.

Peking Duck

Anonymous said...

From a different angle/ a conspiracy theory.??

The Indians (the restoration started in 1986) used a few damaging/dangerous chemical compounds, including Zinc silicofluoride, sodium pentachiorophenate, which produced sodium chloride (salt) as a by-product. As we known salt is deadly to stone, as is Polyvinylacetate. The latter is more deadlier one.

In my view, polyvinylacetate used by the Indians has been irreversibly ruining the Temple. Polyvinylacetate compound contains moisture which seeps in and builds up underneath the impermeable stone coating in due course produced spalling (blistering/flaking of the stone surface). While it kept out the fungus, which was eating up the stone, for about 5 years. It took about 10-15 years to see the damage from the Polyvinylacetate. At first, as one put it, you would see the stone surface yellowing, then opening up and cracking, which we have been noticing now for over the last 10 years or so.

The use of Polyvinylacetate saw its deadly effect elsewhere - in the ancient Hospital of Saints Paolo and Govanni, Italy. The stone sculptures on the outside of the building were blackened and fell off. This happened before the Indian restored the Temple.

Keo Cham said...

School of Vice has touched on another note, which is at the heart of this issue, that I (I confessed for myself) and maybe many Khmers and foreign people (including Indian Hindus) may have overlooked.

And that is the issue of the historical significance of these architecture complex and holy sites. Hindus lay claim to or take liberty at replication of Angkor because to them, this is merely a matter of Hindus venerating Hindu arts and culture.

In that perspective, they failed to see, and have overlooked the historical significance of this art in shaping Khmer identity. The image of Siam looting Angkor, and that of Jayvarman II being annointed God King are prime of example how the fabric of Khmer identity are infused into these temples.

The living arts among the walls and corridors, the scene of dancers and wars - these goes beyond Hindu motifs and mere religious and Brahmanism inspiration. Indeed, what we have in Angkor, is a living record of a people. The very fabric of their existence, recorded in it.

Thus to replicate Angkor, goes beyond merely dedicating and venerating the Gods and religion Angkor was inspired from, but it is also a replication of the unique struggle, identity, and history of the Khmer people including their wars and their struggle, Angkor is to Khmer both a story of sweet glory and of bitter downfall - herein lies the recorded accounts of their civilization.

When one looks at Angkor from this perspective- from the Khmer perspective- one can come to believe and realized (as I now have) as School of Vice puts it, a "Cultural Theft" on a grand scale. Why? Angkor is not merely a Hindu religious holy site, but a living history and archive of the Khmer civilization through its own unique struggles and evolution - all which had been recorded and will be replicated from the extensive bas relief of Angkor.


Thank you, School of Vice, for your thought provoking article.

If we cannot stop this, we are indeed in need of forgiveness from our ancestors!


--
Keo Cham

Anonymous said...

KI only wanted to know your good opinion and not your private business.
Why some of you wasted a lot of times to insult other people and most of them you don't know or have met face to face.

Anonymous said...

the top priority is to take Angkor Wat from Ah Norouk Sok Kong first and hang Ah Runteas banh Hun Ksen.

Keo OTH Cham

Anonymous said...

also angkor wat and all other khmer temple ruins are as unique to cambodia is the pyramid to egypt. plus, angkor wat is protected by khmer law and world heritage site law, thus, no country can copy angkor wat and called by another name. i can see a small replica for the amusement park is probably fine with cambodia, still any country who want to make a small replica still has to ask cambodia for permission, not just do the way they feel without regards to cambodia's law, etc... like looting of khmer artefacts in the past, just because some bad individual did it by taking advantage of cambodia's civil war, etc, doesn't mean somebody else continue to do that. two wrongs don't make it right, you know. anyway, i think most khmer people will protest and think it is wrong for india too copy with big investment in building it. it is plagiarizing cambodia, not acceptable by law. i hope india will consider our law and the international law as well. yes, cambodia's angkor wat temple does have law that protects it eternally. please respect that.

Anonymous said...

Ah Hun Sen promised to slit his own throat if illegal logging continues, then when lost the election he murdered hundreds of opposition members in the bloodiest coup of the century.

What promises will Ah Hun Sen make this time, now that the Indians do not need permission to build Angkor Wat replica? Slit his own balls?

Anonymous said...

Overwheming, mind-boggling and I do not know anymore what my khmer life is going to be like from here on in...

Why Khmer?
When Khmer soul is taken away,
Khmer ceases to be Khmer...
Quand l'âme khmère est arrachée,
khmer cesse d'être Khmer...

Good nite!

Anonymous said...

Good discussion and good arguments!

Lots of good points!

I am surprised that India is that low and stupid in their thinking on this project. Their temple built in the 21st century using machinary on a mass scale on the Indian land will never have the same historical and religious values plus the serenity that Angkor Wat provides.

Without the time that has passed, same jungle surrounding it and the stones get entangled with roots of the large trees and the historical blood and sweat of the Khmers that were shed in the building and protecting this glorious Temple, the temple the Indians plan to build will simply be another building of the 21st century.

If you love Angkor Wat so much, and nobody would blame you for having done so since she is just too beautiful to not love, you could come to Cambodia with the money you have and help us, the Khmers, the true owner and builder of Angkor Wat repair, preserve and beautify the real beauty that you have so admired to the point of shamelessly declaring to the world that you would make one of your own though you know it is unreasonably, religiously and morally wrong.

The Hindu Gods have already got a house in Angkor Wat, their home that has survived the test of time, greed and wickedness of man. They won't move to your temple.

Do the right thing, abolish the project; come to Cambodia with money and help restore our beauty to her original glory!

Your Hindu Indians can make a pilgrimage to Angkor Wat as often as they like if they really want to please the real Hindu Gods.

Pissed off

Anonymous said...

Oui, qu'est-ce que Khmer avait-il fait dans son existence antérieure?

Bourg-la-Reine, France

Anonymous said...

"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." - Buddha


Communist Sihanouk,Ho Chiminh and Mao Zédong killed 3 123 521 innocent khmer people;
May Justice prevail!

Anonymous said...

La Chine a annoncé dimanche une forte progression en 2012 de son budget militaire, susceptible d'alimenter les inquiétudes chez ses voisins dans une région Asie-Pacifique où les Etats-Unis renforcent aussi leur présence. La hausse du budget chinois de la Défense sera de 11,2% cette année, à 670,27 milliards de yuans (80,6 milliards d'euros), a détaillé le porte-parole de l'Assemblée nationale populaire (parlement), qui ouvre lundi sa session plénière annuelle. "Nous avons un grand pays doté d'un long rivage maritime, mais nos dépenses de défense restent relativement basses en comparaison des autres pays importants", a affirmé Li Zhaoxing.

Anonymous said...

Extreme Khmer Episode 8: Preah Ko Preah Kaew, Part 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBbRN-5YOA

Anonymous said...

"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." - Buddha


Communist Sihanouk,Ho Chiminh and Mao Zédong killed 3 123 521 innocent khmer people;
May Justice prevail!

3:40 PM

Anonymous said...
La Chine a annoncé dimanche une forte progression en 2012 de son budget militaire, susceptible d'alimenter les inquiétudes chez ses voisins dans une région Asie-Pacifique où les Etats-Unis renforcent aussi leur présence. La hausse du budget chinois de la Défense sera de 11,2% cette année, à 670,27 milliards de yuans (80,6 milliards d'euros), a détaillé le porte-parole de l'Assemblée nationale populaire (parlement), qui ouvre lundi sa session plénière annuelle. "Nous avons un grand pays doté d'un long rivage maritime, mais nos dépenses de défense restent relativement basses en comparaison des autres pays importants", a affirmé Li Zhaoxing.

4:13 PM

Anonymous said...
Extreme Khmer Episode 8: Preah Ko Preah Kaew, Part 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrBbRN-5YOA

Anonymous said...

Ah chkae chkuot Khiev Kanharith,
Konduoy mer ah ronteas banh ...ah kbot jeat !!!

Anonymous said...

It is not appropriate that the Vietnamese Sok Kong was allowed to own Angkor Wat that is a symbol and spirit of Khmer people and nation by uneducated and dumb peasants (Ah Kwuck Hun Sen, Heng Samrin and Chea Sim and so on) who have not known anything about Khmer history in deep. It is very unbelievable the dumb Yuon/Viet-installed PM Hun Sen, the ugly animal coming from Communist Hell Vietnam who married to Yuon/Viet wife Bun Rany.

It shows the very ugly image of Vietnamese crook Sok Kong who exploited the wealth (billions of dollars) by seeing Angkor Wat is a good business for the fucking thief Sok Kong.

The people of world and Khmer people would think that it does not make sense at all that Vietnamese Sok Kong who is not a Khmer blood dare to own Angkor Wat that is not a Vietnamese Soul and was not built by Vietnamese folks. The Vietnamese folks like Sok Kong just destroyed Angkor Wat and made the billions of dollars out of tourists from around the world.

The tourists around the world and Khmer people would think that the Yuon/Vietnamese folks like Sok Kong are the weirdest and strange people who have tried to take advantage of the most valuable treasure of Cambodia to suck the billions of dollars using the most famous and valuable of Khmer/Cambodian symbol and spirit in the world.

The tourists and Khmer people would that the Vietnamese like Sok Kong are so suspicious and skeptical that they (Vietnamese tycoons) used Angkor Wat and other Angkor temples to do their businesses to make their fortunes and become billionaires, destroying Cambodian/Khmer spirit, soul and symbol of Khmer nation.

Because of the illegally installed Vietnamese dog Hun Sen and other CPP Yuon/Vietnamese crooks(who have gun, power, military forces provide by their Vietnamese bosses in Hanoi), the illegal Vietnamese settlers like Sok Kong, Sok An, Hor Nam Hong, etc., are lucky to be opportunists in Cambodia to make fortunes and then become billionaires.

These Vietnamese thieves will run away with tons of billions of dollars (or even trillions of dollars) and destroyed Angkor Wat (the spirit, soul, national pride, and symbol of Khmer/Cambodian people). More beyond that these, the Vietnamese crooks/thieves under the stupid and dumb Vietnamese puppet Hun Sen are stealing the valuable lands with full of rich resources.

Things are getting worse and even the worst because of the dumb and educated Hun Sen (Vietnamese dog).

We should blame Yuon/Vietnamese leaders who are the ones got involved with Hun Sen and other dumb Khmer leaders like Heng Samrin, Chea Sim, Tea Banh, and so on to cause the greater destruction and devastation to Khmer nation, people and country.

Someone as bloggers said," don't blame Yuon," but they did not look Khmer/Cambodia has been in such the destruction and devastation, almost everything has been ruined and messed and beyond. Therefore, those bloggers or idiots are stupid and don't see their own eyes, that Yuon/Vietnamese like Sok Kong, Sok An, and other uneducated bastards and bitches in CPP regime led by stupid Vietnamese dog Hun Sen.

Yes, when those Vietnamese tycoons (thieves/crooks), Hun Sen and other dumb Khmer leaders in CPP have millions or billions of dollars, they don't care about the Khmer/Cambodian nation are suffering and declining gradually and Khmer people are hurting so much.

Let's leave this for Khmer people to think and save the Khmer nation.

Shame on the Yuon/Vietnamese nation, Youn/Vietnamese leaders, Yuon/Vietnamese folks along their Vietnamese dogs who married to Vietnamese bloods who are crocodiles and snakes, Vietnamese fuckers and suckers.

Takeo said...

Cambodian is no longer owned Angkor Wat under Hun Sen's regime. Indian can go ahead and build a replica of Angkor Wat now. Hun Sen's regime have no rights to block the construction until Angkor Wat Authority is run by the World Heritage Committee.

Anonymous said...

I agree it's better to give the management to NESCO then to give Angkor Wat to Ah Vietnamese Sok Kong. Also ICC should trial Ah uneducated Vietminh Hun Sen for murders, crimes and abuse of human rights under this installed regime of 33 years in dictator regime

Anonymous said...

Please don't blame anyone Khmer King and Prime Minister are careless about protecting Cambodia from the Vietnamese expansion. Khmer era is begin to fade from earth, so protecting Angkor Wat from the Indian replica now is not going to help Cambodian in the future because Cambodia will be next the Khmer Krom after the Vietnamese takeover is completed. All Khmer ancient temples will be destroy and Cambodian will be homeless and starving to death by the Viet barbaric.

Anonymous said...

Not as easy as that,
Khmers will survive,
time doesn't go against Khmers,
our children are more and more educated,
dictatorship disappears continually..

Anonymous said...

Angkor Wat built in India, this is the first time in the history of Cambodia, I heard such a thing.
May be the spirit of our ancient Khmer king Suryavarman the builder of this sacred temple who returned incarnated in the head of this Indian and told him to bring this temple dedicated to the cult of Vishnu in the cradle of Hinduism, its venerated religion.
This sacred temple is not a business.
There are several interpretations in this unprecedented and symbolic event.
N.Sihanouk goes to China, it is perhaps not the right direction for Cambodia?
Suryavarman the builder of this sacred temple , he goes to India.!

Anonymous said...

The top priority is to take Angkor Wat back from Ah Norouk Yuon Sok Kong first and then hang Ah Runteas banh Hun Ksen.

Keo OTH Cham

Anonymous said...

ក្រោកឡើងម្ដងទៀត ខ្មែរគ្រប់ទីកន្លែង កំចាត់យួន
ចង្រៃ និងខ្ញុំបម្រើដាច់ថ្លៃ។

Anonymous said...

Since every decision has always came from Hun Sen, the decision to allow India to use Acid to clean Angkor wat came from Hun Sen too because Hun Sen is genius. He is so smart at putting Cambodia to extinction.

Clean Angkor Wat with Acid.

Punish a person who just criticized the installion of the light on Angkor walls.

Leasing Angkor Wat to a Vietnamese Sok Kong.

Defied the Paris peace accord.

Allowed Vietnam to encroach the land and maritime borders.

Allowed the mass influx of the Vietnamese to destroy all natural resource and vote for Hun Sen to facilitate the Vietnamization, etc...

Are these enough mistakes to put Hun Sen on trial?

Anonymous said...

Part 1

Really hate Vietnamese Sok Kong, Sok An, Dumb Khmer peasant Hun Sen (with no education or High School at all) who only thought the money, wealth and power by using other to do the jobs or works even collecting or stealing the money from International donors as tax payers around the world every year for more than three decades

This is how the fucking bastards like Vietnamese assholes Sok Kong, Sok An, and dumb and uneducated womanized Khmer bastards Hun Sen and other dumb Khmer leaders used Vietnamese military forces to protected to be in power and continued to abuse the power and killed the innocent Khmer people and children.

We need to get rid of Sok Kong, Sok An and other Vietnamese folks who worked in CPP Administration offices in Phnom Penh because they are very dangerous to Khmer nation; they don't care about Khmer nation's interests; and they block Khmer people to access to their education, information, and everything in public. This is how the Vietnamese CPP used Communist Vietnamese systems to oppress freedoms of Khmer people and protect their lies and fake in Cambodia. That is why Americans and foreigners think Khmer people are lazy, falling behind and very slow. Only Ah Kwack Hun Sen is very slow and stubborn to step down or afraid to be killed by his Vietnamese bosses when he resign or step down. Ah Kwack Hun Sen is very coward more that other CPP bastards.

Those Vietnamese CPP members like Sok Kong, Sok An, Men Sam An, etc., still think about only Vietnam that can take over Cambodia as well as Laos.

UN, USA, EU or International Communities still think that Sok Kong, Sok An, Men Sam An, Hor Nam Hong, other Vietnamese crooks or tycoons are Khmer/Cambodian citizens, but they are acting FAKE Khmer/Cambodia and pretending to be Cambodian/Khmer by doing the businesses with foreign investors like Chevron, etc. These groups of Vietnamese bastards and bitches in CPP regime have ruined Khmer/Cambodia reputations and created the bad images of Khmer/Cambodian people like us so that world named one Khmer leaders who are dumb and uneducated such as Hun Sen like us Khmer people. Do you feel that this effect us Khmer people here like Khmer bloggers or readers to be as dumb as Ah Kwack. It is very embarrassing and making us Khmer people very upset because of traitor Hun Sen. No Khmer people will be regarded as blind as Ah Kwack who is controlled by Communist Yuon/Vietnamese masters in Hanoi and his Vietnamese/Yuon wife Bun Rany. So, we as very intelligent Khmer people are feeling hurtful because of unfair and nonsense strategies coming from the Fucking Communist Yuon/Vietcong/Vietnamese bastards and bitches.

Anonymous said...

Part 2

Again and again, UN, USA, EU and International Communities need to pay a close attentions that Vietnamese master-minded leaders in Hanoi and Vietnamese CPP members or officials (FAKE Cambodian/Khmer citizens) are playing the games and tricks in the international stage or pretending that they (Yuon/Vietnamese/Vietcong) had rescued Khmer people from Pol Pot's Khmer Rouges.

UN, USA, EU and International Communities must know that the Vietnamese master-minded leaders and Vietnamese CPP officials in Cambodia who ordered and pushed Dumb Leader Hun Sen (Vietnamese dog) what to do in order to abuse the power against Khmer people and opposition parties in Cambodia. So, UN, USA, EU and International Communities must investigate the Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi and put pressure on Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi and order the Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi to stop destroying and killing Cambodian/Khmer nation, stop encroaching Cambodia land at the border, stop the enormous destruction to Cambodia by involving with or manipulating uneducated Khmer leaders (Vietnamese dogs) and main Vietnamese dog Hun Sen to kill innocent Khmer people, stop the Vietnamese leaders to push Vietnamese dog Hun Sen to give permissions to Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi to send the illegal Vietnamese folks (millions of them) to illegally settle in Cambodia everywhere to scare Khmer farmers living remote areas, and more problems in Cambodia have been caused by the Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi and Vietnamese CPP Officials (FAKE Khmer or Cambodian citizens) led by uneducated and brainwashed Vietnamese dog Hun Sen until today.

We as Khmer people, please try your best as you can to write the letters to UN, International Communities, the U.S. officials (President Obama, Congressmen and Congresswomen, and Senators), EU Unions leaders, to let them hear millions of Khmer people who have been victimized mainly by the Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi and Vietnamese CPP high ranking members who are not real Khmer or Cambodian citizens including Hun Sen and his Vietnamese wife Bun Rany as well as Hun Sen family ties or Vietnamese/Cambodian CPP family ties.

Khmer people at home and abroad, please wake up, do something to tell the world about Vietnamese leaders who control Hun Sen nowadays by telling Hun Sen what to do in Cambodia to beat up and abuse power against vulnerable and voiceless Khmer people in the world. Now, it is time to do something.

Khmer Yeurng

Anonymous said...

The "middle path" will create the loopholes for Hun Sen’s cronies to pocket the money through the Indian bribery.
You know how Hun Sen’s government works; big money can solve almost anything – money first national interest later.

Anonymous said...

This is inspiring most...I am tearing..."To the memory of all great and noble Angkorian Kings and Khmer ancestors who built marvellous cosmic stone monuments with your own bare hands, your own sweat, and who endured untold sacrifices out of love for, and devotion to, your own kind and your own descendants: we humbly ask your forgiveness for being powerless to fulfil your noble wishes; to live up to your example, nay worse, to prevent your sacred legacy from being put to ruins in your and our name. For all this we ask for your ahorsikam!©"

Anonymous said...

Hun Sen is now the world longest serving prime minister. Little does the world knows he lost the election twice but killed opposition helped by the Vietnamese by not accepting the results.

Is there anyway to get rid of Ah uneducated Hun Sen out before the next election

Anonymous said...

you know, i said it before and again, in order to prevent any individual from holding on to power forever, especially the one you hate or dislike or not fond of, etc, the only solution is to introduce a sound law the required terms limit in office, say two terms or three or at most four, but no more than that. otherwise, people like 5:09am, can complain or whine until the cow comes home and it wouldn't make mr. hun sen illegal to continue to won election and stay in office as long as he is capable, both mentally and physically. the other option is to have somebody else more competitive or more qualified because if there is none that are qualified now, then cambodia is not ready to accept a new prime minister. got to have someone qualified in his/her own rights and must be honorable, charisma, highly educated both khme and the world, smart, enlightened, wise, one that can unite cambodia regards of political affiliation, one that is favored and wanted by majority khmer population, one that have grand vision into the better future of cambodia, etc...most definitely not the one that lobby disunity, violence, hate, prejudice, discrimination based on national origin, religion, sexual orientation, social status and all the other evil, unwanted traits.

got to have that individual(s) ready, if not, cambodia may not be ready for a new prime minister yet. either that or the terms limits would answer 5:09am's inquiry or despair. if they kept on ignore the terms limit law or the fact that there have to be another individual(s) ready for a smooth transition to new gov't, stop whining and forever hold your peace, ok!

to break that undesirable, bad tradition of power, we have to take into consideration terms limits and well-qualified individuals, and that could be anyone who is qualified and met all requirements by law... this should be debated and talk about more often than not!

Anonymous said...

6:38 AM,

Can you stop wasting your time writing this comment?

You think like a little kid in School of Communist Yuon Vice.

Again, get the fuck out of here!

Anonymous said...

ROFLMAO with 7:37 AM!!!
You're cracking me up...man..LOL!!!

Anonymous said...

You are not Khmer.
No one, especially YOU , must not call
ANGKOR WAT just a stone building.

Do you know how much Khmer blood
it took to defend and protect that
" Just stone building " against the
Siem invaders ?r

At least, you should show some
RESPECT.

A Khmer Patriot

Anonymous said...

According to ancient alien story telling. Khmer people connecting to sky people or other planet.

Anonymous said...

07:56pm
Stupidity is well presented here

Anonymous said...

we neet to kill AR-SOK KONG AND AR-SOK-AN WE MUST ACT NOW

Anonymous said...

Mech penh jet heui reu nov ah XIHANOUK ? ? ? ? ?

Doy sar KUM NUM personnel ah XIHANOUK, teup Khmer roleay yarng nis !!

Anonymous said...

INDIANS AND AH CPP VIETNAMESES USING ACID TO CLEAN ANKOR WAT !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mech penh jet heui reu nov ah XIHANOUK ? ? ? ? ?

Doy sar KUM NUM personnel ah XIHANOUK, teup Khmer roleay yarng nis !!

Anonymous said...

All Khmers,

This Khmer TRAGEDY was because of the Sweet Cucumer Dynasty's stupidity as proclaimed to be Sacred dynasty, and never and never learnt how to Govern, Protect
Cambodia as VARMAN DYNASTY.

The same stupidity of Chey Chetha II, and Chey Chetha III= Norodom Sihanouk is making the Vietnamese COLONIZATION of Cambodia in the near Khmer disastrous RACE ENDING.