"Cambodia said they have never accepted it but we will tell the court that they have already accepted it," Phongthep said. "They believe their reason is convincing; we also believe in ours," he said.
(ANN/ The Nation)-- On Monday, the first day of the hearing, Cambodia told the court that it has never accepted the unilateral delimitation of Preah Vihear's vicinity made by the Thai cabinet in 1962 following the International Court of Justice (ICJ)'s judgement.
Cambodia has on many occasions over the past 50 years expressed its disagreement with the Thai action. Phnom Penh suggested to the court that the 1962 judgement, which found that Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia, is the consequence of the existing international boundary line. That boundary line is defined only by the French-made 1:200,000 scale map.
The ICJ ruled in 1962 that the Hindu temple is under Cambodian sovereignty and ordered Thailand to withdraw troops from the temple and its vicinity.
Cambodia has on many occasions over the past 50 years expressed its disagreement with the Thai action. Phnom Penh suggested to the court that the 1962 judgement, which found that Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia, is the consequence of the existing international boundary line. That boundary line is defined only by the French-made 1:200,000 scale map.
The ICJ ruled in 1962 that the Hindu temple is under Cambodian sovereignty and ordered Thailand to withdraw troops from the temple and its vicinity.
To comply with the court judgement, the Thai cabinet in 1962 relinquished a quarter of a square kilometre of the land on which the temple sits and its immediate vicinity. Cambodia argues that this action went against the court's judgement. The temple vicinity from where Thailand must withdraw its troops should be in accordance with the boundary line shown on the map, Cambodia's counsel team told the court.
Thailand will today tell the 17-member court that Cambodia has de-facto acknowledged the vicinity determined by Thailand since 1962. The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.
"Cambodia said they have never accepted it but we will tell the court that they have already accepted it," Phongthep said. "They believe their reason is convincing; we also believe in ours," he said.
Foreign Ministry deputy permanent secretary Nattavudh Photisaro said the Thai legal team held several rounds of meetings to analyse the Cambodian testimony and found it matched the Thai preparations for counter arguments.
The map would be a major topic and legal counsels and experts would explain its inaccuracy to the court, he said. Several copies of the map were produced and the map itself was inaccurate when translated to real terrain, he said.
Thailand's main argument is that the map was not the crucial part in the 1962 judgement. It was not mentioned in the operative clause of the judgement.
Cambodia argued earlier that the map, which was referred to in the court as Annex I, was inseparable from the main judgement. The court should take the map into account when interpreting the 1962 judgement.
Cambodia's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said Cambodia gave weight to the map in its presentation to the court as it was fundamental to the 1962 judgement.
33 comments:
We should demand the Thai thief and the Yuon thief to give back all Khmer provinces, then the problem with Preah Vihear will be automatically solved.
Great-- totally agree---
I am also wondering the maps mentioned by Thai Team, cited from the Nation news:
(1) Both countries submitted 59 maps to the court in 1959-1960, question: can we see those maps?
(2) The overlapping area of 4.6 square km did not exist in the previous case, and the new disputed area of 4.6 square km is the result of reproducting the Annex I map, Questions: (a) who reproduced the Annext I Map? (b) when, and where were they made? (c) what purposes of this map?
(3 Lines on old maps cannot be transformed into lines on modern maps. Question: why the lines on old maps cannot be transformed into lines on modern maps?
Any comments or answer especially from map expert, would highly appreciate.
Thanks
4:47 AM
All these problems were created by Ah Runteas banh Hun Sen who implemented the bilateral treaties with Vietnam.
Ah Hun Sen ceded so much land to Ah Yuon thief, which prompted Ah Chor Siem to seize the occasion too.
Then they (Yuon and Siem)unilaterally created new maps and called a lot of land that belong to Cambodia as "white zone".
It is time to hang Ah Hun Sen and Ah Sva Kim Hong.
Ah Yuon has created all kinds of problems in Cambodia.
Why Ah Choy Marai Hun Sen is so afraid to free himself from Ah Yuon?
Hun Sen will loss the hearing because Hun Sen sold the land surrounding the temple to Chinese already. Thai still claim that land as their because Hun Sen is a crazy Viet dog and powerless against Thai power. It is a never ending story by Hun Sen and Viet wanted Khmer to continue the war by fighting against Thai and Khmer people die for nothing. Khmer will forget the Cambodia-Vietnam borderless issue. Cambodian is in a very hard situations every where we turn, we lost land and people life. Hun Sen should seek help from the American to free Cambodia from the Viet occupation and expansion.
Lodge complain to ICJ is wasting a lot of money and times. If Cambodia joins development of Preah Vibear with Thailand, there will be no dispute with Thailand. Although Preah Vihear is belong to Cambodia but the main entrance is in Thailand's side and the main tourists also come from Thailand too. We are Khmer shall remember that when we ran away from Communist during 1980s Thailand had offered shelter to Khmer people. Thus, joint development of Preah Vibear with Thailand will bring peace and prosperity to both countries.
Pang Sokheoun, Secretary-General of SRP in Sweden.
Thailand used to help you dumb fuck refugees, so just give it up that useless 5 acres of lands or just start develop together for the sake of peaceful neighbor. Let's us move forward and create more jobs for those living at the border, and most of all both side would benefit from sharing tourism profit. At least now we both at the win win situation.
'm writing to wish Pi Anh a wonderful anniversary, as Khmer people are killing each other.
Also, it is my sincere hope that the Cambodian government will do everything in its power to escalate the border dispute into a full-scale war so that Pi Anh and I can sit on our leather couch drinking beer and watching the Cambodian and Thai soldiers slaughter each other on our flat TV.
Again, Pi Anh and I are committed to conflict and welcoming a full-scale war with our friendly neighbor (Thailand), at the same time we must MAINTAIN peace and stability with our forever-friend Vietnam (our saviors). After all, we ALL want war, yet we value entertainment, and therefore, let the game begin. DON'T FORGET to have the beer coming--yes, steak and lobsters, too--as we're watching the Cambodian and Thai warriors slaughter each other.
LIFE IS GOOD!
From Phnom Penh
Khmer couldn't fight any country but we are good in killing each other. Sihanouk doctrine in Playgirl and Playguy this is why Sihamoni hate women, Sihamoni will never get marry with women may he will marry a gay man.
5:09 AM and Ah Kantorb 5:10 AM
How about Thailand and Viet asshole Nam give all Khmer provinces back to Cambodia?
This will produce a smooth relation with each other.
why now not then,to bring that
case to the IJC? why now,thai thief? Are you jealous of the Youns
who steal and robbed
a lot of khmer lands since 6 june
1949,the date of the loss of Khmer Krom to yuons?
"The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert."
Is this guy mentally ok? Are Cambodia complains noises to him??? What is the officially acceptance from Cambodia that is ok for Thailand to own Cambodia territory?
Thailand, were trying to fool ICJ judges,
they were doing flip flop tact tic, to fool ICJ judges
many year ago, thialnd was belong to Cambodia territories,
Thailand, has no lands,back in old time,
Cambodia, needs to claim all lands title back to Cambodia,
I'm just a simple farmer, but yet everytime I see comments made by these thai so called "experts" made me wondered where have they gone to school. They are trying extremly hard to discredit the Khmer and by doing so, have made a fool of themselves. The whole world can see this and I hope the UN will judge this accordingly by grant the Khmer their wishes.
@ pang sokyoun? You want me to co-manage your house and family ?!!!!!!
Deay_Khmer Always...
this is exactly what cambodia has always said siem's unilateral move to demarcate the border area of preah vihear. and of course cambodia always said that's unacceptable. of course, cambodia have the internationally recognized map that the icj used to make their judgment in 1962. that cambodia map does not lie. anything different than that is siem's unilateral move in the cover of darkness.
and by the way, siem's language like 'phra viharn' or whatever is rendition or corrupted translation of the real khmer language, like preah vihear, for example, for your information! icj will help find justice for cambodia that saw our country of cambodia from an empire to the size it is today, by these greedy neighboring countries. cambodia didn't have to say anything because the internationally recognized map is sufficient evidence for the court of law of the icj.
and by the way, didn't the french treaty map that was also used in the ruling of 1962 was what created the present-day international borderlines of cambodia with all its neighboring countries? if siem pretends not to know this by now, then those siem people must be ignorant, to say the least!
i hope icj will punish thailand or siem for contempt of court since 1962 ruling! if siem logic is just, then the question is: what map did the icj use in their ruling of 1962? cambodia sticks with the map that the icj used in 1962, what map did siem thief use in their 1962 argument? isn't that the reason siem lost to cambodia, then? and if you follow on siem rhetoric and their contempt of court, they always said preah vihear temple belongs to them. i think icj should find justice for cambodia. clarification is that! of course, in the court of law, especially on the international stage, siem's aggression toward cambodia will have consequence. that's why if it's up to siem country, they don't want any international involvement because that's how they stole lands and territories from cambodia since the decline of the khmer empire. anyone can see that pattern, even if they are not khmer. it is time the cambodia and the world say no more to siem's aggression toward cambodia. there are law and order in this world now, unlike the dark ages. what was siem thinking? and of course, their bias toward cambodia won't help the situation at all! if anything, they only feed into hatred, uncooperation, unfriendly, unpeaceful... who in their right mind wants that? cambodia only wishes for everyone to do what is right in the name of law and justice. justice will prevail for cambodia. cambodia is hopeful! i can't say the same for siem's aggression!
Pang Sokheoun, you are a fucked up son of the bitch by saying that:
“We are Khmer shall remember that when we ran away from Communist during 1980s Thailand had offered shelter to Khmer people.”
It was the UN, the West and Japan who rented lands from the Thai to build the refugees’ camps for us, Khmer.
If it were up to the Thai, we all would be sent back to Cambodia down the cliffs of the Dangrek mountains range and then through the minefields.
Research your facts before posting, dummy.
and the lesson from all of this is that cambodia should start develop all of our country, never leave any part of cambodia isolated or undevelopped again. otherwise, thieves in neighboring countries will try to steal from us cambodia. cambodia should should learn from this and change our perception or thinking once and for all. build modern infrastructure all over cambodia like railroads, bridges, highways, airports, seaports, etc, ok! improve khmer people way of life, standard of living, education for all khmer people and take care of the disabled and the disadvantaged khmer citizen, etc, etc. that's how we all can help to make real difference for cambodia and khmer people. lives do go on, even after death.
old official map can't lie. looks to me like siem some other neighboring countries of cambodia did take advantage of chaos and the civil war in cambodia by making many maps unilaterally. that's why we now see so many different maps of cambodia's borderlines with our neighboring countries all around cambodia. i believe these neighboring countries did take advantage of a weak and chaotic and the civil war in cambodia. but we know cambodia old official map does not lie. that's why it is right for cambodia to stick with the old official maps from french era because that map never change. any change to the old map is a sign of the neighboring countries' unilateral move to demarcate their borderlines with cambodia by taking advantage of cambodia preoccupation with civil war like the pol pot era, for example!hope that is clear if people wondering why there are so many maps of cambodia all seems to be different, that's why it is important to have all natural boundary lines as possible. that's why island nations are at advantage because their borderlines are formed by the coastlines, mountains, rivers, lakes, etc! learn something about geography helps your understand!
Join development of preah vihear with thailand? How about join development of your wife with thai sex tourists? She will be happier and you might be richer.
only official map or internationally recognized map from french era is accepted to avoid any attempt of unilaterally demarcating the borderlines by themselves. this is why cambodia sticks with the internationally recognized or official map from the french era because this map is what created the present-day international borderlines of cambodia, any new or different map is nnot acceptable by cambodia. and it goes without saying, duh! that's why we have the offical treaty map from the french day! if not, why don't we all go back to primitive society when there was no borderlines! siem's logic or argument makes so sense because one thing siem is not even a super power; siem is evil, not fit for super power!
siem's logic or argument sounds so twisted, literally. they have nothing good or original to say accept twisting the meaning of cambodia's presentation. they truly show their contempt of court by violating the 1962 icj ruling.
siem's argument is lame, they look for loopholes. hope the court can see that and help find justice for cambodia.
AH Pang Sokheoun is AH LOP! AH PLEUR!
AH PANG doesn't even know what the hell he is talking about! ahahhaha
AH Ping Ang. Is your face so ugly to show us that now you are hiding behind another fake person?
Keep using the name Pang Sokheon, Ah chkae. Your mum is ashamed of you.
Go get a brain check.
Its free service in a democratic country. HAHAHA
If you Khmer don't stand your ground the Siem military thugs will slaughter you like the Muslim in Southern Thailand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO7It6VNVmk
In case we are going to have a real war with Thai, we should fight all of the Muslims from Southern Thailand to Cambodia and let them fight with us again Thai.
The muslim in southern Thailand were one time as former Khmer citzen and they have the right to fight for Cambodia.
What is the fact? The fact is the old map and the old map doesn't lie!
Yes, i agree, Ah Pang should come out to defend his stupid comments. Maybe Ah Pang is a chicken shit just like his master fugitive ScamSR. Maybe his mistress Sokunthear Som won't allow him to speak up anymore beside licking her dry pussy. or maybe he's too busy changing diaper for his mistress daughter( fb. Neak Neang Mlis). Too bad, God punish him for cheating on his ex-wife.
according to siem's side, they made many maps for many purposes; well, for your information, those illegal maps don't give siem country the right to steal from cambodia's lands and territories and temples, etc! this is not homestead era when one can just stake claim to the frontier or whatever. cambodia can never recognize illegal maps of thailand! only french era map is official and french map from that era don't change, only siem's illegal maps change! the french era maps is more just for cambodia and it should be used in all modern maps of cambodia and its neighboring countries, otherwise, you have all this problems of many illegal maps made unilaterally by the countries that stole from cambodia... this case is important perhaps it can set a beginning of renew demarcation of all cambodia's borderlines with the neighboring countries once and for all. otherwise, the problem of stealing and aggression by bullying neighboring countries never go aways without justice for cambodia.
the question is one of legality of the map being presented i.e. do the court accept siem's unilateral map stake claim to the cambodia temple and its access and surroundings or will the court look into the legal map ( a treaty map) from the french era which by the way was legally binded then. this court case will settle and legally demarcate the borderlines in according with the agreement in the legal documents. i believe it is the job of the court to settle qne what is legal and what is not. that is exactly the case with this preah vihear dispute. siem can try to tell the court with their twisted logic or what have you, but at the end, the court only looks at what is legal binding and what is not to make their decision. siem's unilateral maps are so illegal because it violated the treaty, the international law, the official agreement, etc, etc, you name it.
the court should also look into siem's contempt of court, siem's violation of court order, siem violation of court ruling, siem's bullying of a smaller nation of cambodia, etc...
which map is legal? siem's unilateral map or cambodia's use of the legal map from the french era agreement? i'm sure the court kept all their records, why not clarify and re-interpret that! what is siem so afraid of when they came up with all kinds of possible scenerio for themself? siem can't win with the law of justice in this case!
WTF, who the hell is 5:09? You must be stupid or something? You think Thailand help us Khmer refugees back in the day? You stupid fool! What happened to the Preah Vihear Incident, you dumb f*ck! It was the United Nations who paid Thailand to accept the Cambodian refugees. While we are still talking about refugees, it was not just the Cambodian peoples, you f*cker! It included the Vietnamese, Lao, the Hmongs, tribal peoples as well from other countries. You f*cker! Now go back in the history, when the f*cking Siamese or Tai were fleeing from the Mongols' massacre, who gave them refuges and protection? It was the Khmer people. In fact they thrived so much that they stabbed the Khmer in the back and steal the Khmer territory and made it to be their country. So if you want to talk about help, then f*cker, it was the Khmer people who helped these f*cking Tais in the first place. Go f*ck yourself, you stupid 5:09
did you know siem's rankling when ahbullshit was in office was also a sign of their contempt of court 1962 ruling! contempt of court alone can get siem in trouble already. god bless my country cambodia always.
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