By Chivita
Radio Free Asia
Translated from Khmer by KI-Media
Mam Men, the nephew of Ta Mok, had accused that the jailing of Ta Mok for many years without judgment was done to kill him.
The following is the transcript of the interview of Mam Men by Chivita who visited him at his home in Trapeang Thom commune, Tramkak district, Takeo province.
Chivita (CV): What is your name?
Mam Men (MM): I am his nephew, my name is Mam Men.
CV: When he was sick, did you go see him?
MM: I visited him once around 14 July.
CV: What was your feeling (the fact that) other former Khmer Rouge leaders were not jailed like him?
MM: I have a lot to say but I am afraid of the tribunal which is not independent, we do not have the right, we do not have the power, they (the government) can do whatever they want to us.
If we look carefully, there are several (KR) leaders. First of all, it was not Ta Mok who held (the power) by himself, there was a head, there was an engine, there was tires, there was a body, it take all these to form a country, and how could one person lead by himself, there must be (other) leaders.
Therefore, if the judgment is not independent, we do not agree with it, why was he held in jail for almost 10 years and (justice) cannot be found? I am asking why (justice) cannot be found? A man is jailed in an iron cage, and (justice) cannot be found, and we provided the money (to search for justice), why can’t (justice) be found? Therefore, it meant that they (the government) put him in jail (with the aim) of killing him, of hiding all that he knew.
CV: What do you think he knew?
MM: He knew only what he did, how can we know?
CV: What do you want to see done (on the other KR leaders)?
MM: I don’t want to see them lying in jail like Ta Mok, I just want to know if all of them are guilty or not, did they do it or didn’t they? I want an independent tribunal to clearly clarify whether the KR killed people? How many million (killed)? The cause of the death, i.e., how many died from car accident, how many killed by the war, by the shooting at each other, how many million? Do not accuse him for those who died from car accident, from hunger during the escape, from drowning. It is not right for him to be responsible of these deaths.
CV: Various news media had detailed that he is responsible for the killing of several tens of thousands, hundred of thousands people, are you saying that he is a pure man, he did not…
MM: I did not mean that he was a pure man, just like I said, there is one engine (the country), there were several leaders, no matter what he has to touch the engine. I am not saying he is good, in that society, there were KR everywhere, he was also involved, but we should have justice: the seventh ranking person is guilty, however, this first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth are free, isn’t it the case?
This means that (they told) him to go to jail first, then they will find a way to bail him out, to release him. However, Cambodia today is not like Cambodia from 1968 to 1975 when Samdech Sihanouk can do anything to anybody, from 1979 to 2006, it is different like the sky and the earth, we cannot do anything to anybody.
CV: Do you regret that he (Ta Mok) did not face the judges, the tribunal to clarify to the world?
MM: I regret a lot because he did not clarify his actions, I believe that what he did, there were people behind him.
CV: Even though he already died, do you still want to see the tribunal move ahead or not?
MM: I want to see it move ahead, we waited and waited, but when he (Ta Mok) died, it was just let go, there was no meaning (anymore).
The following is the transcript of the interview of Mam Men by Chivita who visited him at his home in Trapeang Thom commune, Tramkak district, Takeo province.
Chivita (CV): What is your name?
Mam Men (MM): I am his nephew, my name is Mam Men.
CV: When he was sick, did you go see him?
MM: I visited him once around 14 July.
CV: What was your feeling (the fact that) other former Khmer Rouge leaders were not jailed like him?
MM: I have a lot to say but I am afraid of the tribunal which is not independent, we do not have the right, we do not have the power, they (the government) can do whatever they want to us.
If we look carefully, there are several (KR) leaders. First of all, it was not Ta Mok who held (the power) by himself, there was a head, there was an engine, there was tires, there was a body, it take all these to form a country, and how could one person lead by himself, there must be (other) leaders.
Therefore, if the judgment is not independent, we do not agree with it, why was he held in jail for almost 10 years and (justice) cannot be found? I am asking why (justice) cannot be found? A man is jailed in an iron cage, and (justice) cannot be found, and we provided the money (to search for justice), why can’t (justice) be found? Therefore, it meant that they (the government) put him in jail (with the aim) of killing him, of hiding all that he knew.
CV: What do you think he knew?
MM: He knew only what he did, how can we know?
CV: What do you want to see done (on the other KR leaders)?
MM: I don’t want to see them lying in jail like Ta Mok, I just want to know if all of them are guilty or not, did they do it or didn’t they? I want an independent tribunal to clearly clarify whether the KR killed people? How many million (killed)? The cause of the death, i.e., how many died from car accident, how many killed by the war, by the shooting at each other, how many million? Do not accuse him for those who died from car accident, from hunger during the escape, from drowning. It is not right for him to be responsible of these deaths.
CV: Various news media had detailed that he is responsible for the killing of several tens of thousands, hundred of thousands people, are you saying that he is a pure man, he did not…
MM: I did not mean that he was a pure man, just like I said, there is one engine (the country), there were several leaders, no matter what he has to touch the engine. I am not saying he is good, in that society, there were KR everywhere, he was also involved, but we should have justice: the seventh ranking person is guilty, however, this first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth are free, isn’t it the case?
This means that (they told) him to go to jail first, then they will find a way to bail him out, to release him. However, Cambodia today is not like Cambodia from 1968 to 1975 when Samdech Sihanouk can do anything to anybody, from 1979 to 2006, it is different like the sky and the earth, we cannot do anything to anybody.
CV: Do you regret that he (Ta Mok) did not face the judges, the tribunal to clarify to the world?
MM: I regret a lot because he did not clarify his actions, I believe that what he did, there were people behind him.
CV: Even though he already died, do you still want to see the tribunal move ahead or not?
MM: I want to see it move ahead, we waited and waited, but when he (Ta Mok) died, it was just let go, there was no meaning (anymore).
1 comment:
It is sad for all Cambodian, we could never know the truth about Cambodian genocide. But it is a victory for Hun Sen's government.
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