The Mekong Times
As a member of a Khmer Rouge (KR) forced labor gang who suffered several bereavements of close family members under the regime, Phat Pouv Seang would seem an unlikely choice of defense lawyer for KR Minister of Social Affairs Ieng Thirith. Yet the French educated lawyer has vowed to fight her case in the interests of impartiality and justice.
The Cambodian co-defense lawyer acting for former Khmer Rouge (KR) Social Affairs Minister Ieng Thirith, Phat Pouv Seang, has requested his client’s appeal hearing, slated for Apr 21, should be postponed until May. Phat Pouv Seang has argued that her co-lawyer Diane Ellis is busy in Britain and has not yet been sworn in as Ieng Thirith’s lawyer. Phat Pouv Seang explained in a Khmer-language interview with The Mekong Times’ Neth Pheaktra the problems related with his client’s case.
The Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC) has had difficulties in collecting documents pertaining to Ieng Thirith’s case. Has this caused problems?
It is most difficult to collect documents dating back 29 years. Some documents have deteriorated and we don’t know where to find them. Witnesses to Pol Pot’s regime might live abroad or have died. We find it hard to collect documentation, especially from the Democratic Kampuchea regime when most information was not recorded, but passed by word of mouth.
It is not only me who has encountered difficulties in collecting documents, but also co-investigating judges and co-prosecutors. If evidence collected by co-prosecutors and co-investigating judges is not sufficient to charge my client, she hopes to win the case. The ECCC is formed to seek justice for victims, but collecting evidence to put a burden on the suspect’s shoulders and [then trying to] solve the burden is not easy. According to the principle of law, when a person is accused with no supporting evidence, the suspect should be released. So, [such a situation] will benefit my client, though I am also trying to search for more documents for my client’s defense.
How is your client’s health?
I noticed that her health seemed to be poor when she was taken into the ECCC’s provisional detention center. She has many illnesses. According to medical reports obtained from Bumrungrad Hospital in Thailand and [Phnom Penh’s] Calmette Hospital, Ieng Thirith fell and broke her iliac bone, has osteoporosis and is mentally ill. I cannot assess how her health is.
How is she being cared for at the ECCC?
Health care services provided to Thirith at the detention center are different from the ones at her house. There are female police helping her when she goes to relax outside the detention center. However, in the evening, she bathes and dresses herself.
What was the result of the request for a conjugal visit for Ieng Thirith and her husband Ieng Sary, former KR foreign affairs minister?
Lawyers acting for Ieng Sary have requested the co-investigating Judges to allow Ieng Sary to meet his wife, but the proposal was rejected because [they said] this would affect the investigating process. However, as Ieng Thirith had psychological concerns in March, I asked the tribunal to allow her to meet her husband twice a week explaining that if they die without seeing each other, we lawyers would be remorseful. So, co-investigating judges issued a decision Mar 17 allowing Ieng Thirith to meet her husband once a week. The couple are delighted their request has been allowed. The co-investigating judges made the decision in accordance with humanitarian and legal principles. I feel very happy with the co-investigating judges’ ruling.
Are there any conflicts among the various KR defense teams?
Each of the former KR leaders have their own defense lawyers. If former KR prison chief Kaing Guek Eav, aka Duch, blames former KR’s National Assembly President Noun Chea, his lawyer will solve the problem. However, I notice that no-one to date has tried to shift blame. A true story remains true. My client, who served then as social affairs minister, did not kill people because she was in charge of dealing with social affairs. She helped repair drug-manufacturing factories. Whether her solutions were good or not, [can only be judged in relation to] the top leaders’ political will.
Do you think you can win your client’s case?
I strongly hope that I will succeed in defending my client because I have collected documents to answer [questions about her case] and I have found many gaps... I hope that my client will win her case. She has been charged with crimes against humanity, but if we look at documents... [from] Apr 17, 1975, Thirith was staying in Beijing, China. In that national socialist regime, it was only the members of the central political party office who had the power, and Thirith was not a member of the party’s standing committee. So she committed no crimes.
The Cambodian co-defense lawyer acting for former Khmer Rouge (KR) Social Affairs Minister Ieng Thirith, Phat Pouv Seang, has requested his client’s appeal hearing, slated for Apr 21, should be postponed until May. Phat Pouv Seang has argued that her co-lawyer Diane Ellis is busy in Britain and has not yet been sworn in as Ieng Thirith’s lawyer. Phat Pouv Seang explained in a Khmer-language interview with The Mekong Times’ Neth Pheaktra the problems related with his client’s case.
The Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC) has had difficulties in collecting documents pertaining to Ieng Thirith’s case. Has this caused problems?
It is most difficult to collect documents dating back 29 years. Some documents have deteriorated and we don’t know where to find them. Witnesses to Pol Pot’s regime might live abroad or have died. We find it hard to collect documentation, especially from the Democratic Kampuchea regime when most information was not recorded, but passed by word of mouth.
It is not only me who has encountered difficulties in collecting documents, but also co-investigating judges and co-prosecutors. If evidence collected by co-prosecutors and co-investigating judges is not sufficient to charge my client, she hopes to win the case. The ECCC is formed to seek justice for victims, but collecting evidence to put a burden on the suspect’s shoulders and [then trying to] solve the burden is not easy. According to the principle of law, when a person is accused with no supporting evidence, the suspect should be released. So, [such a situation] will benefit my client, though I am also trying to search for more documents for my client’s defense.
How is your client’s health?
I noticed that her health seemed to be poor when she was taken into the ECCC’s provisional detention center. She has many illnesses. According to medical reports obtained from Bumrungrad Hospital in Thailand and [Phnom Penh’s] Calmette Hospital, Ieng Thirith fell and broke her iliac bone, has osteoporosis and is mentally ill. I cannot assess how her health is.
How is she being cared for at the ECCC?
Health care services provided to Thirith at the detention center are different from the ones at her house. There are female police helping her when she goes to relax outside the detention center. However, in the evening, she bathes and dresses herself.
What was the result of the request for a conjugal visit for Ieng Thirith and her husband Ieng Sary, former KR foreign affairs minister?
Lawyers acting for Ieng Sary have requested the co-investigating Judges to allow Ieng Sary to meet his wife, but the proposal was rejected because [they said] this would affect the investigating process. However, as Ieng Thirith had psychological concerns in March, I asked the tribunal to allow her to meet her husband twice a week explaining that if they die without seeing each other, we lawyers would be remorseful. So, co-investigating judges issued a decision Mar 17 allowing Ieng Thirith to meet her husband once a week. The couple are delighted their request has been allowed. The co-investigating judges made the decision in accordance with humanitarian and legal principles. I feel very happy with the co-investigating judges’ ruling.
Are there any conflicts among the various KR defense teams?
Each of the former KR leaders have their own defense lawyers. If former KR prison chief Kaing Guek Eav, aka Duch, blames former KR’s National Assembly President Noun Chea, his lawyer will solve the problem. However, I notice that no-one to date has tried to shift blame. A true story remains true. My client, who served then as social affairs minister, did not kill people because she was in charge of dealing with social affairs. She helped repair drug-manufacturing factories. Whether her solutions were good or not, [can only be judged in relation to] the top leaders’ political will.
Do you think you can win your client’s case?
I strongly hope that I will succeed in defending my client because I have collected documents to answer [questions about her case] and I have found many gaps... I hope that my client will win her case. She has been charged with crimes against humanity, but if we look at documents... [from] Apr 17, 1975, Thirith was staying in Beijing, China. In that national socialist regime, it was only the members of the central political party office who had the power, and Thirith was not a member of the party’s standing committee. So she committed no crimes.
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