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Courtesy of www.hoksavann.org |
Lecture Series of CAN CAMBODIA
- Saturday, 15 October 2011 on "Engaged Buddhism: Challenges and Controversy" by Ven. Dr. Hok Savann, www.hoksavann.org:
According to the lecture by Ven. Dr. Hok Savann, Cambodian Buddhism and Cambodian Society is inseparable. Thus, Buddhacakra (Buddhist dimension) and Anaacakra (secular dimension) must be lifted up equally. Buddhist laws and the universal human rights law is the same. Buddhist belief and Buddhist thought is considered a tort law or traditional law which is required the enforcement of secular law (national constitution and sub-decrees) to duly serve society.
Cambodian Buddhism is very substantial for legality, unity and social engagement. Without durable legality, unity, and social engagement, Cambodian society is hardly advancing. However, the respect of the rule of law must not happen only among lower citizens, the upper administrators must be duly obeying it as well. For instance, the lower thieves who stole chickens and ducks have immediately been punished but the thieves who are sitting on office chairs are immune of punishment.
Ven. Dr. Hok Savann doesn’t support the participation of Bhikkhu monks to vote or to choose secular leaders in each national election. Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka have become members of parliament but the image of Buddhist monks in the assembly are not appropriate at all among those lay law-makers and the practices of the assembly.
Regarding to Ven. Luon Sovath whose Buddhist top administrative banned from the temple is not due to the Viniya of Buddhist Sangha order. Ven. Luon Sovath’s activities and involvements with those victims of land grabs and forced evictions are not offending any chapter of the Viniya. It is just a social norm that Cambodia has never had monk like Ven. Luon Sovath. If the top administers of Buddhist Sangha accused Ven. Luon Sovath of violation of Viniya, they have to sit down and point out what parts of Viniya has he offended? Banning from the temple is an absolute order which Buddhist temples are owned by the laypeople; and it could not solve the problem. Otherwise, it is showing the not-independence of Buddhist Sangha administrative in Cambodia.
In conclusion, Cambodian Buddhist monks should not spend too much time in chanting mantra or building luxurious temples, they must pay attention to produce human resources and explain the laypeople on the daily basic needs to improve living standard; outreaching to the youth who are young seed of society.
Note: if you want to listen the whole Lecture, please click this link: http://cancambodia.info/?p=83 and if want to join with us next Lecture session, please submit to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/cancambodia
58 comments:
Dear friends
I think it is very important, that if somebody teaches he needs to be a teacher (a Master) before he can do. Actually there is a believe that if somebody is wearing a robe and have some intellectual understanding of the suttas he is able to understand the Buddha Dhamma.
Traditional a Monk would only recite the suttas and traditional formulas. Today many young monks think they are already able to teach but even have not attained even a path fruit and are far away from peace in there self.
Not having reached the first fruit on the path (a Sotāpanno, Sakadāgāmí or Anāgāmí) they are still worldlings (puthujjana). Puthu means mass and jjana means defilements.
A worldling is called puthujjana because he has many attachments, many businesses, many sensual desires, many involvement.
A worldling can be a layman as well as a monk. Usually a monk even he is a worldling uses to keep the monk rules. In this way he was earlier capable of being differentiated even he is still a worldling.
Today it is actually more easy to different because monks generally do not keep the Vinaya any more. So if we look at the activities of monks we can easily see if he understands the Dhamma already (means that he has gain insight and wisdom already).
Its is also modern today to use Dhamma as a tool of defend and to make politic, but that is not the propose of the Dhamma.
There is also no model of punishment like modern (western) world believes into. The way of Buddhism is a way of training and a way of keeping tasks. So tasks are more important than rights. If we keep or tasks we would not have problems with right. We are able to change our self, but we are not able to change others. So we put the main effort into changing our self to help our society and our world.
To judge others is not very effect, first of all we often failure because we do not see the intentions behind and second we produce additional harming.
Not harming is the primate intention and the 2nd factor of the noble eightfold path. Right intention means no intention to harm and no ill-will (no aversion) and further the intention to renounce (restrain from sensual pleasure as pleasure causes harm on the other hand)
The most important thing for the society in Cambodia are Monks who are really walking the way of Buddhism and start to be a sample and an ethical anchor for the society. We can not teach somebody to stop smoking if we smoke our self. And over more we still harm others while we are smoking.
A monk usually does not need to make Dana because he puts all the effort into the other kinds of Punna (Bon) and he actually has nothing to share.
If a Monk has no faith in the teachings of the Buddha and no faith into the vinaya and the way Buddha had taught he should not use the name of the Buddha to make politic he should continue his practice eager to be helpful for him self and all beings and to attain a leave to be able to teach.
Buddha taught the cause of suffering and the escape from it and if somebody thinks he that it is possible to change Samasara or that he had found a different way to free from Suffering he actually does not follow the advices.
Dear friends be mindful and but more effort in the practice! Its for the benefit of all beings.
It is important to have faith (out of understanding) and its also good to work on it if one does not have enough.
Monks are more danger to the Dhamma as laypeople if they misinterpret the Dhamma as people think they are general different only because of there cloth.
with metta
_()_
Hanzze
Dear Hanzze;
Are you sure that Ven. Luon Sovath is involving with politic and he is breaking the vinaya, please explain me more on that.
Thanks
Dear Hanzze!
Without a long speech or explanation, may I just ask you a simple question.
Deep down in yourself, do you think
what comarade TEP VONG and comarade
LONG NHET did to venerable TIM SAKHAN and venerable LUON SAVATH is right according to Buddhist Vinaya? Base on what? Sincerely.
SI ENG KRUY
Dear Hanzze
Thank you for your time and effort in speaking to us about the importance of Buddhism.
What law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken?
BREAKING NEW,My name is Pang Sokheoun (Khmer Sovanaphumi) would like to confess my sin..i did something that a gentleman like me shouldn't have done, by listening n cooperated with my gf Sokunthear sam hacking n stealing someone pics without their consent to defame someone innocent ..i ( Pang Sokheoun) always accused someone of being abusive n attacking my personal issues, but now me n my mistress Sokunthear Sam are being stupid by invading someone privacy accounts...now i think God will punish both of us my lightning strike soon....furthermore me(Pang Sokheoun) n my mistress SOKUNTHEAR SOM sincerly would like to apologize to the public for hacking n stealing someone else personal ids....best regard..
HI, My name is Pang SOKUEON KNOWN AS (KHMER SOVANAPHUMI in facebook)...i'm here to apologize to the people in facebook world, n to the KI-MEDIA for my part being a dickhead, hacking n stealing someone personal accounts, now i think those innocent people found out it was the work of me n my mistress SOKUNTHEAR SOM to defame them, they will go after me in every directions....i knew what i did was wrong, but did it anyway, now i'm so scare of repercussion from those innocent people....i thought i was smart, but infact i was the world dumbest person ever for being so disgrace to the public....
(Sorry that I used to write as anonymous before but while posting here my account was disabled but now fixed again.)
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That is a very usual thing in Cambodia, but should be no problem if one keep strongly on the vinaya as nobody could claim any failure.
Generally politic mean to take position for one party. Buddha never take party for any opinion but taught both side the truth and how to overcome suffering and solve to problem on the real level of its cause.
If a noble disciple of the Buddha speaks words, he takes party of the Buddha Dhamma and help people to loose there attachments.
How to act you can see in the simple Duties of a Monk below. Thats it, if we keep the Dhamma as simple as it is taught we don't need to hypocrite and live all through a peaceful live.
to be continued...
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Dear SI ENG KRUY,
you asked: Deep down in yourself, do you think
what comarade TEP VONG and comarade
LONG NHET did to venerable TIM SAKHAN and venerable LUON SAVATH is right according to Buddhist Vinaya? Base on what?
Maybe the answer to the previous question explains already what all is about.
Vinaya rituals as well as the reciting are actions set by the Monk - Sangha and an are business of the Sangha. Form my personal view it is sad, that such rituals are public in any way.
From my very personal view (when I read about diverse actions and the worldly ways of it) I fully understand the order of the Sangha.
We need also be compassionate to the "leaders" as they always need to follow political pressure and are never really free so we need to know that they need to keep peace between the Sangha and the worldly authority.
If we look at the whole dilemma we can see that this way (which was walked) is neither a Dhamma way nor a political way. More over for both views (Dhamma Vinaya and political) this kind of actions are not welcome and brings conflict for the laypeople as well as for the Monks. So driving at the same time on two vehicles is always a potential danger to have an accident.
So after such an accident we can go on and try to drive on two vehicles or we get wiser and use one of this.
Personally I think it is better to make the move to be a perfect teacher of Dhamma because this helps more than worldly struggle between different opinions.
It is very important that we have good Dhamma teacher who show a good way and the way how we can live peaceful together and it is also very important that there a wandering monks who teach daily not only through there virtue but also in daily contact with the people. We need people who take care of each others and like the Buddha taught someone who is only practicing for him self but do not encourage others to keep virtue will be blamed (even there is nothing wrong with it).
We need to focus on the actors (karma=action) and not on the results (riping karma) because the cause is long gone. We need to talk with the actors and not look pitiful on victims, that does not change anything. If we have good access to both parties we are able to call for sanity and actually solve the problem. We need to have a good amount of peace in our self to do this. If we are attached to one side, we make the things only more worth. That is way we need to put more effort in our practice.
Ajhan Fuang once said:
"If a Monk Lives from the gifts of the layman and does not practice the Dhamma to liberate him self he will be a cow in his next life and plowing the rice fields of those People."
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We need to keep everything without strings. So we should not make a monk to someone who is plowing our fields and a monks should not live on Dana that is not given that he continues his practice and he should also not misuse it for other propose.
It can also happen that karma rips in the previous life.
Please give every monk the freedom to practice and provide him with food, shelter, robes and medizin (maybe transport) but nothing more. Layman should take care of money as a monk is not allowed even to touch it and he should not need to own things as he is not allowed to own things. So we need to put much effort into providing our future teacher good and do not involve them in our business and worlds issues as he would not be free to speak real Dhamma and real helping words. Monks and Layman are deeply depend on each other and both are able to move upwards or downwards together. Its never only ones single fault. So both need to improve if there actions are according to the teachings of the Buddha and need to be critical with them self. To change into right giving and also right rejecting. Without strings!
I beg all involved people to look what is really fact now and not what was in the history. Not spreading hatred with old stories and in making opposition.
We have such a great land such a wonderful heritage and the treasure of the Dhamma. How ever we struggle with each other and do not see that our feet making the treasure next under our feet dirty.
May I end my long writing with a little from the Dhammapada:
3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
5. Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
May all beings realize the way to real peace for them self.
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
PS: Dear Pang SOKUEON thanks for your courage of this apologize.
Thank you for your time and effort in speaking to us about the importance of Buddhism.
What law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken?
Also. Please ignore 3:16 PM and 2:27 PM. Its the same person, trying to get attention, because, you see, he loved a girl, that girl left him and loved a man name Pang, So, 3:16 PM and 2:27 became heart broken, about 6 months ago.
Ever since then, he became gay, hated himself and enjoyed mens company but dislike women, he now craves the attention of a man name Pang. Its a love triangle. Ignore this person who is pretending to be Pang, he just wants to talk to Pang one last time as his heart is burning with desire and calls out for Pang every night.
My question is, What law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken? Please answer my simple question for those who may not understand Buddhism.
If, you also have time, please give us your explanation on what karma is. Hun Sen, Bun Rany, Hor Nam Hong, had killed thousands of Cambodians, rob them of their lands, houses, religions and future, yet they say to other Buddhist that they are devoted to Buddhism. How does one become so evil and with cold blood in their hands, can sleep at night and can pray with other Buddhas while thousands of corpses are waiting for justice and thousands sleeps in the street waiting for their next meal.
Aus
Dear Aus (I think its the name of you),
it is normal that we are very attached an moved if we identify our self in the wrong way with others and it is normal that with this attachments unwholesome thoughts and feelings arise.
To your question who is the mad man, I had try to make it understandable in the previous posts. From Buddha Dhamma view it is not relevant to judge others but to look at ones own deeds. That means we look at our duties and the more people look at there own duties the more peaceful is a family, nation and even the world.
If we make it in a different way, that we judge others but do not improve our own acts it is just as pro and contra all the time. Opinion again opinion. There is a "you" and there is an "I" but the truth is behind opinions.
The Topic is reading Buddha Dhamma so I will try to explain it also from this view and not from a modern confused kind of thinking that we can change the world without improving our self.
Kamma or Karma means simply action. When ever one makes a mental (tought), verbal (speaking, writing), or bodily action it is called kamma.
Our actions have results and those might be wholesome, unwholesome or neutral.
The result will be the fruit in the future (often people say that if karma get into a fruit, it is kamma but it is only the result of kamma), the future can be immediately after the action (kamma) - for example you shout at somebody and he shouts back - or sometimes later - for example you shout at somebody, somebody else is watching it and one week later you meet that person and he also shouts at you - or even after lifetimes.
So karma is something that we produce all the time (good an bad) and the events which makes us suffering or feeling good are the results of our previous deeps. What ever karma one performs it will come back and also have influence on the consciousness later. You can also see it more deeply, if you have done something wrong you might not see it now, but some years later you realize it and you suffer out of shame. That is how kamma works and the more unwholesome deeds somebody does the more he has defilement needs to think a lot feels worry and struggles (mostly without knowing why).
So when ever you beat somebody you will be beaten in return. Maybe now or in many later or in other life's. If you have done merits you will enjoy the merits, but you also loose them on and on if you dont continue to do them.
That is why people have a mad live are poor and ugly and why others are now (that is important, it could change!) wealthy. That does not mean that we are not able to change our situation all the time, but we can only do it by our self.
Why, because everything is rooted by the right intention. If we for example give somebody a gift but actually it has the intention to gain something for it or even should harm somebody else, we might think "Oh great, he made charity" but actually is mind state was full of greed or ill will. So if one does not act out of a good mind he would not be better even we help him.
That is way we need to focus on the right intention and wholesome deeds and teach people not to make it in that or that way but to have the right intention and do not harm others or bare ill will.
So the first step to a better live is looking at ones own actions (thoughts, speech and bodily action) and if we are very well known about cause and effect we can also guide others to improve them self in the right way. How every we should always encourage people to abstain from harming and killing, stealing, lying, abuse and taking intoxicants.
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If we see two people fighting each other it our intention to solve the problem so that nobody produces negative (unwholsome) karma. We do not judge them who is right of them who might be right to do wrong, wrong is wrong and we try to keep the from doing wrong.
That people understand this we need to explain them Dhamma and if they understand the Dhamma they can easily improve they live so that they can live happy and peaceful. We can not change old karma and the results of it will come in any way and nobody can run away for his old actions. So we need to focus on keeping people away form harming what ever is the reason.
There is in Buddhism no better wrong, Wrong is wrong and we serve the results even if million of people say "yes do it" or "that is right, you should punish or you should beat back". If we keep people fighting each other there will be people encourage fighting us later.
To have faith in the Buddha Dhamma means to have faith in a peaceful solution and to encourage people that not harming is much more important than any worldly gain. If we have a clear and bright mind we can live even happy as beggars (look at a real Monk) but if our mind is full of defilement (hate, anger, greed, worry, doubt...) we can even have millions or own the whole world but we would never lead a happy peaceful life. You just need to look at the most rich man in there cars. Their face is unhappy they have lot of worries and live in prisons fearing to loose everything.
So if we like to help somebody, we show him how to life a happy and peaceful life where ever he is and what ever status he have. We need to have compassion with the poor in the same way with the rich. Both of them are suffering.
We need to encourage people to walk the middle way. The middle is where desire and needs meet each other.
We can share what we have. If there is somebody who needs food shelter, clothes or medicine and we can share we should do that. If we keep precepts and make merits we gain a better live. If we make sometimes some merits but do not look after our virtue its a waste of money and time. We steal on one hand and give just a little to others just to be seen as "good people" in the same way we may cry for the rights of other here but do not respect the right of others there where we don't like it.
So to follow the Dhamma is a way to change all our life's. If we walk the way of punishment and judgment of other nobody had learned anything but we are putting oil into the ongoing burning in our world.
Actually we need to have much compassion (karuna - the will to help them to walk the right way to peace) with those who are not seeing the right way jet, because they will suffer from it in the future very hardly why we can have a lot of mudita (joy with others who have real joyful gains).
It may sound total different like one uses to think but I am sure one is able to understand the reality behind.
And that is the wish of Metta (good will) that we need to maintain all the time. "May I be happy. May may neighbors be happy. May may nation be happy, may the whole human family be happy may all animals and beings in this world be happy and realize the way to peace and gain therefore the end of suffering in this present. life.
May I and this with some words from the Dhammapadha:
1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
"So the first step to a better live is looking at ones own actions (thoughts, speech and bodily action) and if we are very well known about cause and effect we can also guide others to improve them self in the right way. How every we should always encourage people to abstain from harming and killing, stealing, lying, abuse and taking intoxicants."
Thanks again for the reply. I have some little understanding of Buddhism from my grandpa who devoted his whole life as a learner.
But as for the questions at hand, I am confused. My simple question is, What law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken? Can you be specific and outline, his crimes? Was it crimes against his mind, his body or his soul? Does Ven. Luon Sovath have a pure mind when he lends out his heart? Again, what law did Ven. Luon Sovath break?
Also in regards to the second question, Hun Sen, Bun Rany, Hor Nam Hong had killed thousands of Cambodians, yet are worshiped as devoted Buddhists. Did they break any law?
You can call me Michael, Aus is the location of where I am situated.
Dear Micheal,
maybe you try to read it once more without hurry.
Everybody serves the fruit of his deeds (good will cause pleasant fuits, bad will cause unpleasant fruits). One is always responsible for his own deeds. If somebody is hurt it has its causes in his previous actions. If somebody lives a peaceful live its because he has acted peaceful before.
Form the view of Dhamma it makes no sense to judge people by there personality and by there history but its good to learn also from outer peoples actions and if we observe the results. We can also learn if we observe other people but we don't need to judge a person a being or an individual.
We know our self, actually we always think we do the right things and all we like is to be happy. The thief just likes to be happy the teacher likes to be happy the child likes to be happy even the one who kills thinks to get happiness. So everybody every being just likes to be happy. We do wrong, because we dont know the way to happiness, we do wrong because we thing take wrong things as right and right things as wrong. That is called delusion. Everybody makes mistakes and will find him self in big delusion. But if he sees it, he could change, if he understands it he can change his actions. If we for example just beat or children, they would not understand, they just would follow us beating others. So if we like to change people we need to make them understand, that they walk the wrong way. If we judge a person we would think that there are good and bad persons in this world, but that is a misthought. There are people with much delusion (moha) and there are people with less. So all we can do aside of improving our own actions is to teach other not to harm and teach them the real way to happiness.
We already know that hatred can not be overcome by hatred, it would be hatred in return. Somebody who did wrong will serve what he has done, maybe in a hell realm, maybe in jail, maybe in big suffering in the nest life.
If we think that we are executor of bad deeds, we make nothing else that producing bad karma for our self. If we teach others to abstain for evil deeds, we make merits for our self and we also have changed the other people. In that way we nourish peace and wholesome actions in this world.
We would not bring any life back if we hang a killer for example, but we would make bad karma for our self. History is gone, we can not change it.
So there is no logical reason to punish others we also don't know what there intention was. We would not help anybody, we just try to solve our own problem.
If we see poor people for example, we tend to make others responsible for this problem, but actually we our self live a luxury life and would maybe share very little to help.
It better to help people by one self and share the luxus we have as to claim others to make them as wealth as we are.
Our real problem is that we like to change the world, but do not like to change our self.
We life a luxory life abroad on the backbone of poor people, and claim others to help them. If we reduce our own greed they would not miss there land and there forest.
I think we need to think very deeply if we are really honest to our self's. And what is our part on the problems in our world.
That is why we reduce or desires and greed after pleasure. That is the way we really help.
If we steal something and give then a little to the poor we have not done any good. Its better to reduce once greed and desire fpr pleasure as to try to be the "good man".
Maybe you like to think about it and maybe the reason for your own suffering (pity) has actually a reason out of your own behavior.
If I like to change the world I need to look at my action, I can change my action but I am nit able to change you. If i am angry its because i am angry, nobody can make me angry. I am also not able to make somebody happy.
We are not able to change others directly but we are able to be a good sample.
I wish I could explain it a little.
_()_
Of course, in the theory of applied Buddhism, Buddha also praised "Padipaanato" that his teaching bears truth in all situations and it will yield huge benefits if Bhikkhu monks are deeply understanding and reflecting his teaching to apply with reality. Worldly reality has been not static, it needs Buddhists and monks to apply with it. This is called active Buddhists, but if those learned monks or laypeople don't apply it with reality, it is called passive Buddhists or monks. I can see that Ven. Luon Sovath is very active to make Buddhist worldwide resurrect again.
Reading Hanzze's messages, I understand his knowledge in the Buddha Dhamma but his description is more passive than active.
EB
if you not helping people you are not in religion!
Dear Hanzze.
I am not sure if I am asking the right question. My reasons for asking you the simple question is to understand what law Ven. Luon Sovath, Hun Sen, Bun Rany, and Hor Nam Hong broke, looking at it from the buddhist point of view.
I thank you for your time, but if that is your view, then i respectively disagree with you. As a human being, we have to open our hearts, our mind and our soul. Through Buddha teaching, we learn not to judge others and not to harbor hatred and among others..
But in reality how can we not hate those that killed our families? How can we move on and live in peace when there is no justice? How can karma help us, if all we do is give and all they do is take?
If I am not mistaken, you said not to judge others, but right now, you are judging Ven. Luon Sovath. I have not heard one word about him from you. Has he harbored much hatred, bad deeds and bad karma?
If i am not mistaken my grandpa once told me that Buddha teaching is about helping the poor and less unfortunate then yourself.
Ven. Luon Sovath is a hero in my eyes. He deserves much more praise from you and many others. He stood for the rights and wrong. Unlike Hun Sen, Bun Rany and Hor Nam Hong, who will kill, cheat, lie, steal, even at the expense of 15 millions lives in their hands.
So again, what law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken?
Dear EB,
thank you for your patient and for you statement, I try to explain so things which could be misunderstood.
Buddha Dhamma is all about reality. We don't need to misunderstand or point of view or our emotions as reality. They are just our point of view and our emotions.
We need to understand clearly what helping means. It does not mean, to help them which I like and harm those which I don't like.
There are different ways to help others and actually Buddha Dhamma is the highest way of helping others.
The actives help is Sila, nothing can excel the own virtue to help others. If one abstains from killing and harming he reduces suffering in the whole world. If one thinks he can help other is harming others, he reduces suffering in one hand and causes suffering in the same amount on the other. So there is actually no help, it is maximum balanced if one is good. That is why this way is called the worldly (Samsara) because its endless ongoing. Killing - rescue, good - bad, birth - death. If one abstains form not taking what is not giving he reduces the suffering of the whole world. If one takes (steals) on one hand and give it on the other hand to help, he actually does not help. If he is good he is able to balance it. That is why it is called the worldly way. It keeps the problem going on.
So the most actives act of helping is abstain from unwholesome actions. We are used to see things black and white and we like one thing and dislike the other thing and so we harm on one hand and help on the other.
The second way of helping is the most known and is called Dana. Also Dana is often misunderstood. Practicing Dana means to practice letting go of, to give away or to share.
If we have something and there is somebody who is in need we share it.
Many misunderstand charity, they take on one hand (which a wrong judgement of what is good and what is bad) and give it on the other side. That is a very usual way in the world, but it is actually stealing on one hand to help on the other. So it is not real help. We need to understand that form a Buddhist view every being is equal, Khmer, Europeans, Chinese, Thai, Aficans... all humans, the strong and the weak, the poor and the rich, all animals beloved and feared as well as plants, Devas and other being we dont see.
So helping does not allow the thought of he is worthy and he not.
That just supporting what I love (thana) and disliking of what I dont like or believe as unworthy.
So normally we have the thought "Ohh that poor one", we like to help him but we dont like to share, so we go out for seeking something additional to give him. So for example we think we need to feed some people and order animals to be killed or we take food from others for the purpose to help. That is not Dana and does not reduce suffering. But it is the very normal way of liking to make something good but being to greedy to share.
So Dana means to share without wanting a return (Material, or gains like acceptance, fame or any other gain in return). If there is somebody who is hungry and we have food at home we share it. The same with shelter, clothes or medicine.
So the side effect of this training of letting go is that we share that what we have to much, what we are able to share and therefore we also reduce suffering in the world.
If we take, steal or order to take our steal or even kill for helping others we don't help and we also do not train in letting go of. We just like to play the "Good man" without taking it really serious and without reducing our own greed.
to be contine...
... continue
Today many people have the idea that they need to b rich first to help others, that is a wrong view. It does not make sense to take first to give it back later and if we look at those who argue in this way, they take much but share just a little. They make very little Dana if we comparing it to the amout of what they take, so they will the the poor people of the further and that is also the reason why there are more and more poor people, because they used to walk this greedy way in previous life. So it is good that we look at our self to do Dana and keeping precepts so that we our self may be not in the situation of the people we actually like to help.
The highest way helping before having attained inside and good understanding of cause and effect is the way of living a like a Monk. If we give up worldly life we share all we have to the others who are still edited to worldly gain. We don't need to thing about Dana, because we keep the highest virtue which helps the most effective equal for all beings. We focus on our practice to attain peace within our self's and attain insight and wisdom to help others understand this way the Buddha had taught.
To find peace we need to overcome or attachments and defilements. If we still have love (like) and hate (dislike) in our self we can not teach that in the right way because we would be attached to an argument or idea, but not seeing the truth and would judge wrong and we also dont have the talent to speak at the right time to the right person.
Because of that greatest help of the worldly problems in abstaining from wanting and taking part of the conflicts the Bhikkus are more than worthy to get laymans support. They dont get this support as a deal but as a thanks of abstaining from doing evil deeds and the wish of the layman that he will teach him or others in the future the way of Buddha Dhamma. So he is like if we give support to a student.
The maybe greatest way one could help others is in teaching others and that is that what is called engaged Buddhism. To leave the Temple (when we have reached a good amount of peace for our self!!) and teach people to keep presets how to make Dana how to help other and one self and to understand the Buddha Dhamma.
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Supposed there would be a Monks who does not practice (no hard training on the Vinaya, no meditation, no mindfulness traing...) but he takes food of the people and gets many things and except them, he will feel guilty sooner or later and greats the thought of I need to give something back.
Actually he is in the same kind of suffering like the people sitting in wealth with a good life behind the TV at home and suffer with the news they hear about the poor.
He likes to give and help but he does not let go of things by him self. So he makes a deal out of it and actually grows to a political figure and is salve to those who support him but losses the way of that what the Buddha had taught.
Supposed there is a person who had attained peace and wisdom, he would be able to help by teaching.
He would not make it in the way to take position for the one or other but bring both sides to calms and if people are calm, they are able to understand the different between their opinion and the truth and together they can find a solution.
The Buddha never takes side, but walked also into conflicts to tell both sides that they are doing wrong and fighting each other for the sake of impermanent things.
For layman there are panty ways to help reducing the suffering in the world.
*to keep precepts earnestly
*to engage other to keep precepts
*to gain peaceful mind to make peace in his family and his next surrounding
* to share his gains with others and in need
* to support a monk in the four needs
* to support the teachings of Dhamma
* to take part in discussions about Dhamma
If we have done the very first ways of doing good things perfectly we can walk on to higher steps, but usually we like to change the world but not seriously like to change our self.
We need to be very carefully about our attachments if we like to help and it is a good sign of not being able to help when we are caught in emotions and feelings of hatred, ill-will, worry, fear...
We have to calm our self first and look at the real reason why we are.
We need to be careful that we don't fall into hypocrisy rather that to put acting and start to change our self's.
_()_
with metta hanzze
Dear "4:56 AM" (sorry I dont know your name),
to have heroes is very good and it is good that we have examples but we need to be careful what hero really means.
I will try a sample. Supposed you have one children and your children in involved in a conflict and fighting with sombody else else you fear about your children because you are attached to it. you would not focus on the real problem but you would wish that you children gets not harmed, maybe even that he just wins the single battle.
So if there is a man, takes side of your children (even he is the one who can called to be wrong from a view of worldly laws wrong) and fights the other wins and saves you child he would be your hero.
But for the mother (or father) your hero would be the enemy of them. So he is actually not a hero because he brought only pleasure and happiness on one side and suffering and pain on the other side.
Supposed you have two children and they fight each other and there is a man taking side of one of your children and harms the other and win. You would be happy on one side and sad on the other side. But you would not call him a hero because he actually had not solved the problem.
So if you see the hero in the first story he would be one for you but in the secound he is not. He is maybe somebody who tried his best but actually one of your children got hurt and you would not call him a hero maybe you even dont like it even he had helped one of you child's.
Supposed you have one children and it is involved fighting with another children and there is a man who can solve the problem and is able to stop the conflict. He is actually a real hero, but if you are attached to your children (your self) strongly you would not see that he is a real hero, because you liked to have your children win and the other suffer.
Supposed you have to children and they are fighting each other and there is a man who can solve the problem calm them down and ends the fight. He would be a real hero and you also would understand it very clearly that he took not side for one children but putted effort in just calming both down.
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So somebody who can be called a hero must be a peacemaker and not somebody who takes side, as for he would effect as much pain as he effects happiness.
So a peacemaker needs to be free of attachments as well as the people who support him.
If you call those heroes who take side of your idea of your children, remember that both of this childrens are childrens and they could be also your children.
Seeing things like the Buddha is seeing people equal out of this is mine, this is yours. That is good for me and this is just good for you.
So there are many ordinary heroes and mostly the more famous the less he is really a hero. People taking side of one part are no real heros. People making peace for both sides and don't taking sides of one of the counterparts are called heros.
If one is attached to his own opinion he needs to seek for companions to win a battle but he does nothing else than fighting for his opinion. That is how Samsara is going on turning faster and faster but that is not the way of the Buddha and to peace.
There are plenty of stories of the Buddha and he even did not take side of his own clan and his own family because he saw all beings equal and he focused on calming down both sides and solve the problem in the way that both side see reality again and just abstain form ill-will and hatred.
That is how the Buddha helped also his own family, by respecting them as equal and focusing on teaching them in there right way and at the right time.
We don't need to bare any hatred or ill-will out of our memories in our mind. That is all history and we can not change it, but only learn form it that we do not the same mistake by our self.
If we are not able to forget anger and don't give forgiveness more value than our attachments to history we will suffer our self and will not be able to share peace. If we let go of the history and focus on the moment we can share peace and understanding and keep people from wrongdoing.
For example if we are attached of all the stories around Ven. Luon Sovath and seek for ideas if his acts have been good or bad we would be attached to the history, but we could even not change it if we want. If we are in the moment, we see that how ever he had caused use to be engaged her in discussion of Dhamma where we all actually learn something so how very the history was, we are doing in this moment panna (bon) because we are engaged in discussing Dhamma and learn from each other so if we are in the present we will see that we are learning and we will see that there is no suffering at all. If our mind runs outside again and is attached to the history we start to suffer again, have a bad mid state and do not share peace.
So we need to stay in the moment and forget about or ideas, feelins and thoughts. If we take care of the moment our future will be well so we also do not need to worry about the future if we stay just in the present.
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There are four kinds of people:
* People who do not keep presets (abstaining from killing/harming, stealing, lying/seaking of what is not the true, abusing and taking intoxicants) and also do not engage others to keep presets.
They are the most among mankind and lost in following just there feelings (vedana) like animals and subject to all kinds of suffering.
*People who don't keep respects by them self but force others to keep.
They are the popular people among the humans and mostly engaged in politic and movements with lot of hypocrisy and therefor be blamed
* People who keep precepts but do not encourage others to do follow percepts.
This people are actually already very rare but even they help others in keeping precepts they are subject of critic.
* People who keep precepts and who also encourage others to keep precepts.
These are the Heroes among the mankind and will never be subject of claiming of there kind of practice. They have the right intention of not harming others and renounce.
The way of Dhamma is to encourage people to make a step form the fist kind to the second, to encourage people from the second to the third and to encourage them in the third level to come into the highest level.
If we focus on our self we are able to help in any way.
I like to encourage everybody here to be an peace engaged Buddhist and invite you to abstain form unwholesome deeds and as soon we are able and understand how to keep them we need to encourage all people around us to do the same, in that way we are able to work and we need to support those who may have the trust of high officials to speak and teach them the Dhamma as well.
We can only motivate people who trust us to listen to us and understand Dhamma. as soon as we are in conflict with somebody it makes us difficult to teach.
Therefore we look at our next people around you and encourage our children, parents, neighbors fist to keep precepts and to practice Dana in the right way. In this way we all move from the the status of heroes and leave the status of just hypocritical people of the second stage.
Karma means action (our deeds) and it we make good actions (without hatred, desires and greed) our deeds help us. That is how we really can change the world.
We need to let go of that what makes our mind worry about and put good thought into action.
_()_
Thanks for you patient
Hanzze
Dear Hanzze;
There are different levels of Dana, what level of Dana have you accumulated?
Dana 2 kinds:
1. Sacrifice materials to serve others who are in needs or Amisadana.
2. Teaching others to be rightly understood the Buddha Dhamma or Dhammadana.
Dana 3 Kinds:
1. Sacrifice materials in order to reserve Dana (Dana Paramii).
2. Sacrifice blood/organs in order to reserve lives (Dana Up-paramii).
3. Sacrifice life in order to reserve truth (Dana Paramat-taparamii).
This is the way of Lord Buddha.
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I for my self have give up to take money and to be involved in normal business, but there is also much to share. Also I do not own much except some clothes.
We can share the food or gifts we get.
And we can share time and we can share our patient.
The Dana 2. "sharing blood/organs" must be a misunderstanding maybe it is from another sect or wrong interpreted. Hurting one self for others, harming one self for others is nothing but noses. There are some Jataka Stories where the Buddha not being an enlightened being jet scarified his body. This stories are not found in the Tripitaka and we also need to understand that the Jatakas provide also many mistakes of an unenlightened being.
But of cause we can share also our blood and body.
So if you see a mosquito eating your blood, you can remember that you are already have eaten and this being just likes some drops of your blood. If there would be somebody asking for some parts of my body to be able to survive there would be no problem to share them if it makes sense. But to scarify (to give something one is attached to) would causes harm of one self. So if somebody is attached to his body he should not hurt him self. You can fan the mosquito away (there is no need to hurt the mosquito because is only hungry) and you can also say to the one who asks you for organs that you fear to much the pain and you are to much attached to your body. So one should not give something away if he is attached to it! He would cause harming one self, especial if he would think later on that it had no real good effect.
So this kind of dana is a little complicated and should not be practiced as long somebody does not understand the Dhamma very well.
The third (could be also easlily misunderstood) one serving the truth points to the virtue and that one should not give up his own virtue for any sake.
Its also a factor of metta (good will) the Buddha advices his disciples that even if thief's are cutting there bodies in peaces they should not bare any evil thoughts of ill-will, anger or hatred but continue to keep loving kindness alive.
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It does not mean that we are playing God or Justice and sacrifice life for the truth (that is the delusion many religions are falling into) but that we even if we are criticized, attacked, beaten, we would not do it in return and we would not break our precepts even for the sake of our life.
Buddha sad clearly that if one does break the precepts and virtue he can not be called a disciple of him. Not harming is the foundation of Buddha Dhamma.
To be honest this kind of categorizing I don't think is very useful and the translational is easy misunderstood. If you one likes to understand Dana better I found this "Abhidhamma in Daily live" very useful:
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Abhidhamma_In_Daily_Life_By_Ashin_Janakabhivamsa#Ten_Domains_Of_Meritorious_Actions
One again to the question of what level you have gained there is good and more reasonable categorize of Dana-People:
A man may be charitable, yet he enslaves himself to his own greed. He is known as a slave to charity. This is the reason. He is motivated by a momentary desire to give and in so doing he chooses that which he does not esteem, because of its poor value, and then gives it away. Another man has a different disposition in regard to his view on charity. He does not feel the sting to be deprived of his possession whichever he chooses and give away in equal degree that which he himself closely regards. He is a friend to charity. But the man who ranks supreme in his love for charity, thinks not of himself nor of his possession, but willingly makes greater sacrifices in consideration, that the needs of others are greater than his. He is a master of charity.
Thanks for you patient.
_()_
Sorry Eb, I just saw that the first part of my answer got lost.
So I try to repeat it.
It is not important which level of Dana other people are doing. It is important to improve our self.
Thanks for you statement!
The name scarify is a little danger.
Practicing Dana means to let go of things we have and do not really need. But it is important that this things are already in our possession. If we take something to give it is not Dana, but mostly a try to be a seen as a "good person".
Dana means sharing without desire to gain something in return, no congratulation, no for acknowledgment, not for honor and not for fame as well as not for materials gain, even not for the sake of gaining merits.
If people make Dana, they mostly fail because they desire for it.
So they do not only share but also tkae to do Charity. That does not lead upwards but keeps us at the level we are.
It is very important that we keep silas. It is like if we like to fill a basin and put it outside so that the rain falls down on it. One time it will be full. But to making Dana and don't keep presents is like we put the basin head down into the open. The rain also meets the bottom but at the wrong side and we will never gain real merits in sum.
So precepts/virture are/is very important otherwise it is just taking-giving, wrong-right, black-white, happiness - pain and doesn't lead to a higher level and we need to be good to even stay at the same level.
Sacrify is a dangerous word, if we give something away, but still are attached to it it will cause suffering. Letting go of and sharing means not to seek for any strange motivation but simply to share.
The first kind of Dana the material Dana is the Dhamma of wordily people and the backbone of the daily life. Without charity our society would not work.
Somebody who gave up all already and shared all, is not bale to make material Dana, but if he continues to take and to be involved even a monk needs to make charity. Why? Because he owns more then he really needs. Sometimes we make it to a kind of business, we say that we like to gain things for the sake of doing good. If we are honest we just still attached and don't like to give up material things, so we seek for a reason to keep the wrong livelihood alive.
The second kind of Dana, the Dana of Dhamma excels every other kind of Dhamma and that is where engaged Buddhism comes has its foundation.
A noble disciple (layman or monk) is able to share Dhamma Dana, but also it we are not at the level of noble we can share Dhamma Dana with books or invitations to Dhamma courses or Meditation retreats, but also if we support others to study Dhamma it is a kind of Dhamma Dana. So if we have nothing to share left we share Dhamma, but not take again or encourage other to take to make material Dana again.
Wish I have not loosed the stream to much with my failure of posting the original 1st part of the answer.
_()_
So again, what law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken?
I am a simple person, not a religious person, a person that see right and wrong. In this case a see a man who is right, but from your religious teaching, you see Ven. Luon Sovath, has acted against your teaching of Buddhism, so what law has Ven. Luon Sovath broken?
Michael.
Dear unknown friend,
once again, Buddha Dhamma is not about judging other people (like we know it from the task of a jurist or a King) and we focus on what actually is and focus on our self and to everything that a conflict situation calms down to be able to walk on in good actions and don't waste time in defending us (I, Ego) or blame others (what is against I, Ego)
So just some words to understand better and to move into study of the holy Vinaya (which is the backbone of the Dhamma and cause of flourishing or dieing of Buddha Dhamma)
The Bhikkhu Sangha has very detail rules and how to make a Vinaya procedure. It's a matter of the Bhikkhu Sangha and not a matter of laypeople.
If a Bhikkhu does not act according the Sangha brings conflicts for the Sangha it is usual that he would be banished.
Maybe it is understand able if you compare military law (police) and civil rights.
Civil rights is national higher (in times of peace) so it could be that a solider comes in conflict with civil right but has no problem with the military rights. But it could be also that he comes in conflict with military laws even he has not done any fault according to the civil right.
Both executes of civil and militarily laws respect each other and would only interact on an bilateral level.
So for example if a soldier drinks alcohol he would violent the military law and would be punished even the civil law has no problem with it. (I guess I dont need to tell that there are less institutions who do really care about executing their rules, even the Sangha does not really take care on the vinaya rituals today, but that is a different capter)
There are 4 reasons why a Bhikkhu has to be disrobed:
Pārājika: Rules entailing expulsion from the Sangha (Defeat)
1. Should any bhikkhu — participating in the training and livelihood of the bhikkhus, without having renounced the training, without having declared his weakness — engage in sexual intercourse, even with a female animal, he is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
2. Should any bhikkhu, in what is reckoned a theft, take what is not given from an inhabited area or from the wilderness — just as when, in the taking of what is not given, kings arresting the criminal would flog, imprison, or banish him, saying, "You are a robber, you are a fool, you are benighted, you are a thief" — a bhikkhu in the same way taking what is not given also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
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3. Should any bhikkhu intentionally deprive a human being of life, or search for an assassin for him, or praise the advantages of death, or incite him to die (saying,): "My good man, what use is this evil, miserable life to you? Death would be better for you than life," or with such an idea in mind, such a purpose in mind, should in various ways praise the advantages of death or incite him to die, he also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
4. Should any bhikkhu, without direct knowledge, claim a superior human state, a truly noble knowledge and vision, as present in himself, saying, "Thus do I know; thus do I see," such that regardless of whether or not he is cross-examined on a later occasion, he — being remorseful and desirous of purification — might say, "Friends, not knowing, I said I know; not seeing, I said I see — vainly, falsely, idly," unless it was from over-estimation, he also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
from Bhikkhu Pāṭimokkha
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/sv/bhikkhu-pati.html
The Sangha act of suspension (banish for the order what does not mean that he is expulsion from the Sangha) "ukkhepaniya-kamma" was often set if a monk teaches wrong views and the most significant Stutta is maybe
The Alagaddupama Sutta: The Snake Simile
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.nypo.html
if he dont change it is a monastic offence called "paacittiya."
Maybe you like to read it as well as the patimokkha and understand it and look if some actions may have reasons or are really just political punishments.
To be able to understand it is needed to go deeper into things we do not know very well, so it makes no sense to judge something if we don't know the matter. It is therefore needed that somebody learns a little about Vinaya and Buddha Dhamma to understand rightly and not just follow what seems to be the right thing.
It is important to understand that a Bhikkhu does not behavior like a normal man. This is often forgotten, I have heard even of Bhikkhus claiming people that they have stolen their belongings even he does not own any thing.
Its good to walk just on one track and if somebody walks on to or drives on two vehicles, because he likes to use the best of both and don't like to give up a little he will hurt him self and others and that is something only one self is able to understand.
For my self I wish that there will be nothing as a "patisāraniya" reconciliation act and that everybody works earnest on practice and teaching the Dhamma for really welfare happiness and peace.
May all battles disappear and especial in the name of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha which is for everyone very unwholesome to use it for the own interests or this of his group. We need to make the first step (everybody of us) not the other.
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
So if being a Buddhist means closing your eyes and your ears and pray to Buddha to save you from bad karma, then dont you think you are just tools of the government?
Clearly, I asked you a simple question, but your heart tells you, not to answer it, means you dont know what is black and what is white. Clearly, if a man is being robbed of his house or having his future and life taken away from him, your conscious as a Buddha is to close your eyes and your ears, then you are just an accomplice of the murderers. In this case, aren't you just a tool used by Hun Sen and CPP? I am saddened that heart isn't as clear as i had expected of you as a student of the Buddha.
In that case, the only and real student of the Buddha teaching is Ven. Luon Sovath.
Dear friend,
I am not sure if your really read and really thought about it, patiently and I am sure Ven. Luon Sovath and many others are good teacher (Dhamma teacher) if one really listen to them, if they teach Dhamma. Often we only hear what we like to hear but not the Dhamma.
Nobody can tell you who is the right teacher for you but it is good to have one, because we can not always trust our self, we don't see our blind points by our self.
If we are deeply attached to our feelings we see and hear nothing but taking our feelings as real.
Its always good to listen what somebody tells and reflect deeply. And as the Buddha devices on the question of the Kalams: "Whom should we follow? There are so many claiming they are right." he did not say "follow me or him" but he gave advices to understand the different between following by understanding and following blind:
Actually a very important Sutta and worthy to read if one has doubt about the Teachings of Buddha.
Kalama Sutta: To the Kalamas
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html
"Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.
"What do you think, Kalamas? When greed arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For harm, lord."
"And this greedy person, overcome by greed, his mind possessed by greed, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."
"Yes, lord."
"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When aversion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For harm, lord."
"And this aversive person, overcome by aversion, his mind possessed by aversion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."
"Yes, lord."
"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When delusion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"
"For harm, lord."
"And this deluded person, overcome by delusion, his mind possessed by delusion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."
"Yes, lord."
"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"
"Unskillful, lord."
"Blameworthy or blameless?"
"Blameworthy, lord."
"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"
"Criticized by the wise, lord."
"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"
"When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
Dear Hanzze;
Have you ever donated your blood? I have often donated blood for doctors to help serving lives of those sicks in running out their own blood. My blood is very helpful for those in need.
However, many others are donating their kidney for their loved one. But I have never done that.
Do you understand the Pali words: Dana Paramii, Dana Upa-Paaramii and Dana Paramattha Paramii. You need to look at Paramii 10 or 10 Devices for Buddha Beings to Access to Enlightenment.
EB
Hanzze.
Thank you for your preaching, but as a simple person, I often dont need to tell people what is right and what is wrong. A good person with a good heart will know that, religious or non-religious. Maybe one day you can teach others about Ven. Luon Sovath, and how he has helped the poor and innocent stand up what is theirs. Perhaps, one day, when the CPP party decides to force evict you out of the temple, you may seek Ven. Luon Sovath so you can learn from him.
Thank you for the conversation,
Michael
Dear EB,
that is a great thing to donate blood to those who need help, but we need to think about if we only help them because we love them and why we dont help them we dont love.
That is a very important point regarding Dana.
For example there are many people who would donate blood to a beloved being but the same people would kill a mosquito.
That is why Dana needs to be trained in giving/sharing/letting go of and not with the thought of "he is worthy" "I like to support him" "I like him to survive" and in the opposite we kill the mosquito or reject a help of somebody we dont like.
That is a selfish idea, and Dana need to be done without a judgment regarding the person and regarding our ideas we like to have the things. Dana (free giving) means to give if it is needed without a thought of "i" "Mine" "me" and "you" "not me" "not my" regarding him how reject.
The intention is important, and the intention to support just what feels good for me and the believe what should be is not beneficial to learn to make Dana.
So if you share, a real good Dana would if you share blood the your enemy if he needs. With this thoughts in mind you loose like and dislike and will see that all are the same.
We dont need to try to be the "good man" if we do so, our Dana is no Dana but a selfish act. Just be good, nothing more. Without a wish of honor in return. If you think so that there should be acknowledgment, tribute or results you like in return, you will destroy your harvest.
A good mind state before one does, a good mind state while doing and a good mind state after.
If you have the thoughts of changing the world in your mind you will nothing but suffer as well as you would never really support.
Dana practice means to let go and not "I like to change the world" you might not know what the men you donated blood will do in the future.
We need to understand the basics to start to run.
If we don't understand the meaning of Dana we would not be able to archive the highest Dana even it looks like we do.
To do Paramattha Dana is a training for one who keeps a Bodhisatva vow, which is noble but you should know that the Buddha not being a enlightened being yet donated his body to a hungry tiger to feed his cups.
Buddha knowing that there are less people with such a will to help even there enemies therefor did not forced all to follow him and taught for ordinary people an direct way. If we can finish the simply teachings we are for sure able to continue the higher ways.
Think of this the next time when a mosquito likes a share! It has no intention to harm, but only to survive.
_()_
with metta
Dear Michael,
I have no doubt that Ven. Luon Sovath has good intentions and we all learn from him.
It is very important that we always look for learning more rather than to keep our ideas and opinions alive. Actually they are the hindrances to peace.
It does not lead to peace if we search for good or bad people, but if we look at good or bad deeds and learn from it, without making them personally.
Thank you also for your patient, your openness and your inspiring questions and ideas.
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
Maybe you like that story about good and bad:
Good and Bad
Opposites are endless. Good and bad, day and night, right and wrong, mine and yours, praising and blaming - all are opposites, all are endless.
Opposites produce each other. Day becomes night, and death becomes rebirth. The egg becomes the hen, and the hen makes the egg. In just this way, good luck and bad luck are an endless cycle.
There was once a farmer who lost his mare. When the mare disappeared, the people of the village said, “Bad luck!” But when the mare came home the very next day followed by a good strong horse, the people of the village said, “Good luck!” Yesterday they thought “bad luck,” today they think “good luck”. Yesterday they said “loss,” but today they say “gain.” Which is true? Gain and loss are opposites.
When the farmer’s son rode the beautiful horse, he fell and broke his leg. Then all the people said, “Bad luck!” War came, and all of the strong men were drafted. Many men fought and died on the battlefield. Because the farmer’s son had broken his leg, he could not go to war. Was this loss or gain? Good luck or bad luck? Who knows?
Dear Hanzze
Thank you for your kind words, I am just a simple person who wants Cambodia to live in peace and prosperity. Ven. Luon Sovath is an inspiration, he stands up for what he believes in and using what he learn to help the poor and the weak, even at the expense of his life.
I myself as a non-Buddhist, believes that no matter what we are, who we are, or where we came from, we all deserves the same level of respect and rights. Sadly to say, I believe that many Buddhists in Khmer are violating the religious codes by closing their eyes and their ears and even practicing crimes such as murders, lies and stealing. The very people who are suppose to protect us, are actually the one who are stealing from us. So in this days of age, the longer we close our eyes and our ears, the longer who friends and families will suffer.
I hope you can see this, and hope that our people can see this and make our voice be heard. Please make your voice be heard, noone needs to suffer any longer.
Michael.
Dear Micheal,
your are right, it is not important which religion we follow, but it is important to change our self and look careful what is our own part on the suffering in the world.
If you are not so in touch with the way Buddha taught you might know the words of Jesus regarding judgment (which carry the same message):
"The one who is free from sin, should bash the first stone" in a situation as many people liked to execute a "mad man"
And that it how also Jesus remember that it is more important to look at one self first and fix the own misdeeds first. If one is pure one might be able to hello others and the disciples of the Buddha follow exactly that way honestly. As long as they know that they are not free of defilement they are very carefully in judging others but remember others to work on there own behavior first.
The more people are looking on there own virtue, the lesser conflicts will be in the world, but if we don't work on our virtue first we suddenly bash a stone and somebody else bashs one back and so the struggle goes on.
Its not important that voices of personal ideas are hard and loud, but it would be great it voices of wise people are always in our hand.
You thoughts are always a good inspiration, Micheal.
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with metta
Dear Hanzze.
I am not a believer of any religions. As i have mentioned before, I grew up as a Buddhist but have since lost touch. My biggest influence would be my grandpa who passed away last year, but while he was alive he was a devoted Buddhist spending every penny and every day studying Buddhisms. He taught me many things while he was alive, but i left Cambodia shortly as a young kid.
To me, Jesus was nothing more then a rebellious magician who opposed the government before being crucified. To me, Buddhist was nothing more then a young child born in a rich kingdom whose fathers hid him from the world. He rebelled against his father's wishes by teaching others of what he had seen and started taking up students as he travels across South East Asia.
Sum it up, today, religion is a weapon often used by the powerful to rule the weak and the innocents. throughout history Christians destroyed thousands of other religions, committed raped, incest and wars, Muslim used religions as a way to control their women as pets and sadly for Buddhism, today they are nomore then just tools of the government. Sadly for us Khmer, with majority still poor and uneducated, they turn to Buddhism, unable to understand they have been deprived by the government of their lands and life, they blame them-self and bad karma, bad deed etc..
The longer we keep this up is the longer our Khmer country will suffer. Perhaps you may not know the truth or not interested in fact finding or perhaps not seen what i have seen. But i have seen enough.
in Khmer i have witness horrendous crimes, sorrow and pain, and feels so sad that our Khmer people are so uneducated that they will fall for anything. Again, if you are a student of Buddha, please help those who are in need, our land are being taken away every day, our women and children are being raped and tortured every day, our families leaving home to find out across the country just so they can send money home for the children and the elder.
Perhaps, everything i have said are all to politics for you, but the truth is the truth. Why are the murderers still ruling the country? Where is karma? If karma exist, please let Hun Sen die tomorrow, so 15 million lives will be free.
Dear friend,
again, you can not change history and you don't know the future but if you grasp it you will always suffer and the others with you.
If you let go of and come to the present you would not have any problem. The own thoughts of ill-will and greed are causing suffering and if we don't realize them we hurt others as well.
Let me give you that simile to understand:
Carrying a Rock
"Letting go" actually means this: It's as if we're carrying a heavy rock. As we carry it, we feel weighed down but we don't know what to do with it, so we keep on carrying it. As soon as someone tells us to throw it away, we think, "Eh? If I throw it away, I won't have anything left." So we keep on carrying it. We aren't willing to throw it away.
Even if someone tells us, "Come on. Throw it away. It'll be good like this, and you'll benefit like that," we're still not willing to throw it away because we're afraid we won't have anything left. So we keep on carrying it until we're so thoroughly weak and tired that we can't carry it anymore. That's when we let it go.
Only when we let it go do we understand letting go. We feel at ease. And we can sense within ourselves how heavy it felt to carry the rock. But while we were carrying it, we didn't know at all how useful letting go could be.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms.html
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with metta
Hanzze
We cannot change history but we must embraced our history, to change the present, accepting the present means accpeting changes.
Today, at the present time, are thousands of families living in the street, robbing each other and stealing food. The past, last year, thousands of families were waiting to be evicted, in the future, more families will be forced evicted. All up, over 30, 000 families have been forced evicted across the province in the Kingdom of Wonder.
So your Buddhist teaching, is to do nothing about it, and let the murderer keep on taking from the innocent?
If that rock can be carried long enough to hurt one person, so 15 millions can have a future, is it worth holding?
Sorry for bad typos, getting tired. just finished work. :)
Dear fiend,
it is good to realize that today is the present, but what if you go further and try to see the present in the very moment?
What if we make one more step and try to understand that the present is also where we actually are?
And what if we try to understand that the present (where we can really act) are our thoughts, words and deed in the very moment.
If we act out of speculations and ideas, we do always wrong.
It is the purpose of every religion to remind us on this. If we try to change them to our ideas we have no gain out of it. It might fit for some minutes, but later its the same again.
One needs to think what he really can do to reduce the suffering of others and his own.
So we can abstain from harming, killing stealing, lying, abusing and taking intoxicants. If we do so we do not great more suffering for others. And we can share what we have, in that way we also can reduce suffering.
Sometimes we think others are suffering, but we forget that often the poor have less suffering as the rich.
As you live in Australia, do you think that there are more people smiling and are really happy?
Actually we often like to have others like we are, because we need to have affirmation that our reasons for our suffering is right.
If we are honest it is not right and even if all around us are happy we will suffer and like to have it in a different way.
That is why Monks or Layman (who understand the Dhamma) strive for release of suffering, because they know that they actually would not share peace with others but there own defilement.
So how can somebody in a mud hole help others out? Its not possible. They would go to the bottom together and nothing would have been changed.
Maybe you try to think about it how you really can help to change the world.
Nobody has any benefit if you go to the bottom care a stone. Neither you, nor others.
If you let him go, you would be able to reach the offshore and reach others the hand.
_()_
with metta
I have seen enough and feel enough pain. I cant compare the amount of pain to the ones suffering under the hands of Hun Sen ruling. I am educated enough to see that the roots of all problem is Hun Sen killing his nation for his personal gains. I maybe abit young, but i understand the concept of human minds very well. Thoughts are the seeds of our action. without action, we humans are nothing more then tools waiting to be used by others. in general, the murderers will keep on murdering as long as they are not caught.
The day that Hun Sen dies is the day that will believe in peace.
Michael
The day that Hun Sen is investigated and prosecuted for his crimes is the day i will believe in justice.
Dear friend,
so if you like to spread hatred and think that you bring peace, than I need to leave this place.
With such thoughts and words you would not help Ven. Luon Sovath, because others would think that he carries ill-will like some of follower. In that way, the others would have fear and in return harm Ven. Luon Sovath again.
Think about you thought, words and action. If they are full of greed and hatred they cause further harm. And you would have caused more pain in the Country you love, thinking sitting on a safe palace.
Actually it would not give you peace as long as you dont see that peace is not followed by hatred but by not-hatred.
So that is way it is important to look on the own thought fist, because they first harm our self and then they harm in words and deed and all of that comes back one time.
Maybe you like to think again how you can help others. Do you really like others (even your beloved and friends) be harmed out of your words?
We have part on the suffering in the worldly, but we are often not aware of it. So try to be mindful for the sake of those you like to help.
Think about it!
A man may plunder as long as it serves his ends, but when others are plundered, he who has plundered gets plundered in turn. A fool thinks, 'Now's my chance,' as long as his evil has yet to ripen. But when it ripens, the fool falls into pain. Killing, you gain your killer. Conquering, you gain one who will conquer you; insulting, insult; harassing, harassment. And so, through the cycle of action, he who has plundered gets plundered in turn.
from Sangama Sutta: A Battle
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn03/sn03.015.than.html
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with metta
This is where we differ. Our life experience and our perspective. With all respect to you as a student of Buddhist.
I am very open, in saying that, correct me if I am wrong, but based on our conversations for the past few days, I would say that you were once a Christian or you never grew up as a Buddhist in your early years. Also, based on your English, I would say that English is your native tongue, perhaps a white person, studying Buddhism and have done a bit of traveling recently. I also think that, you don't have an extensive or large families living across Cambodia, or don't have any members living in the low income/country side area.
Michael
Dear Micheal,
I like to share you a story:
Preserving Our Heritage
North America is a melting pot. We Cambodians have been here for just one generation. In recent year, we have also resettled in Europe, Australia, and throughout Asia. As we rebuild our lives in new lands, as we become part of new societies, it is important for us also to preserve our cultural identity. Without our culture, we will become lost and confused, like fish out of water.
Cambodians have precious heritage. The richness of Cambodian culture includes many gifts:
* Cambodians are fearless because they can overcome greed, anger and delusion.
* Cambodians are humble, courteous, and noble.
* Cambodians are grateful to their mother and father, to their leaders, to their land, and to the whole world. Cambodians keep the five moral precepts, the constitution of humanity, and the Dharma of goodness.
* Cambodians have mindfulness and clear comprehension as their protectors.
* Cambodians practice loving kindness, compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity.
* Cambodians have patience. They can bear great difficulties, suffering, and hardships.
* Cambodians forgive and forget the wrongs of other people. They learn from the lessons of the past. They use the present to build the future.
* Cambodians are truthful and well-behaved. They follow the middle path.
* Cambodians are soft and smiling. Their speech is truthful, loving, and practical, clear, vibrant, and sweet. Their speech has the power to free the mind from anxiety, to purify the mind from delusion, and to make the mind strong.
* Cambodians have the tradition of solidarity, united by Buddhism and their love of Dharma.
When we are in the river, we flow with the river, zigzag. But we cannot forget our bout, which is our tradition. As Buddha’s all, may the Cambodian people be peacemakers. In the tradition of our scared land, may we celebrate unity, loving kindness, and peace with our deepest gratitude.
from "Step by Step" by Preah Maha Ghosananda.
I invite you to be part of it, to learn and live a different live. And I invite you to come here and help to make the world a better place. If we put it into action by our self we feel better, its because we make the first step out of our aversion and fear and start to fight the enemy inside.
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with metta
May i ask where you got this dot points about the Cambodian people, it sounds like someone a CPP party would say? Also, was i right with my guesses or even close?
Dear friend,
you can call me how ever you like and you can see me how ever you like as well as other people, but it will stay at the level of your personal ideas.
Guess all your ideas are right, would you gain any peace?
I don't think so because you don't see the really enemy and he is inside of one self(hatred, greed and delusion).
If so, take me as the one of your ideas and I am happy if you gain out of it peace.
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with metta
Dear Hanzze.
Dont be mistaken, I am a simple person. My ideas are the same, I am not accusing you of being anyone, you are who you are.
I am just confused, and was wondering if you have ever seen or experience the pain and the suffering as i have. Not to make any judgement against anyone, but i have come across many people who claims to know many things, but in reality they are blind and often lives inside a cloud.
But if you wish to disclose yourself from answering my questions, that is your choice. As i have noticed, you have avoided many of my simple questions as if hiding yourself. I dont mean any harm between us as we are all equal. The only harm i want to see is to the dictators who kills others for their own interest and personal gains.
Michael.
Dear friend,
maybe this is useful to understand why there are useful answers and useful questions which lead to peace. And why there are not useful answers and not useful questions:
Questions of skill
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/questions.html
If I was able to bring you more peace it would be a sign that our questions and answers had been useful, if not sorry for my lack of talent.
Take care of your thoughts and the suffering has an end. Ill-will burn one first while good-will makes one great and brings peace in ones heart and to the whole world.
_()_
with metta
If peace means that our friends and your families are living peacefully in Khmer without fear of death threats or forced eviction and with equal value and equal rights with love and compassion for one another, then Cambodia is a kingdom of Heaven.
Why then so many Khmer live in fear? Why do so many families seeks to flee the country, except the few with unlimited money?
Can Cambodia be at peace when the ruler is a murderous dictator?
Btw. Thank you for the passage, i will take some time to read it.
Dear friend,
that is a picture that you have from people making politic, from media, from news. Politic and getting followers in this way is not possible without making enemies. The live here is as like everywhere else. There a happy people, sad people, angry people, helping people, stealing people... like in Australia. Fore sure here people still smile more than in ever else in the world.
Actually the crime rate and corruption rate here in Cambodia is lower as for example in US. Generally people here live just the same life as somebody elsewhere, just in another way.
If we don't know that the reason for our struggle is our own mind and our own thoughts, we can not be at peace, even we have all wealth.
So if we have peace in our heart we can keep peace alive and also invite more and more people to join.
It would be really great if you come and see for your self and live a simply but peaceful live.
Today I read a story I like to share:
The Wise Crack
Somewhere far oversea, as dawn was breaking, a little monkey climbed to the top of a palm tree and, swinging a very heavy coconut in his hand, began to shout just as loud as loud could be. A camel, hearing the noise, came a little closer, looked up into the tree, and asked, “What’s the matter?”
“I’m waiting for the queen of elephants. I’m going to crack this coconut over her head so she won’t be able to see or to think.” The camel thought, “But what’s really the matter?”
At midday, a lion came by, heard the noise the little monkey was making, looked up at him, and asked, “Is there something you need?” “Yes,” yelled the little monkey, “I need the queen of the elephants. I’m going to crack her on the head with this coconut and split her skull right open.” The lion thought, “But what does he really need?”
In the afternoon, a rhinoceros came by and became curious about the little monkey, and looked up and asked, “So what’s your problem?”
“I’m waiting for the queen of elephants. I’m going to crack her on the head with this coconut until she can’ see or hear.” The rhino thought, “He realy does have a problem.”
In the evening, the queen of the elephants herself came. She scratched her back on the palm. She reached up into the branches to pick a few leaver with her trunk. Above her, it was just as still as still could be. When she looked up and saw the little monkey, she asked: “Do you need anything?”
The monkey replied, “No, nothing at all. It’s true, I was yelling a little bit earlier today, but surely you didn’t take that seriously, did you?” And the queen of elephants thought, “He really does need something.” Then she saw her herd in the distance and stomped off.
The little monkey thought quietly. After a while, he climbed down with the coconut and cracked it on a rock until if broke open. Then he drank the coconut milk and ate the coconut meat.
We often have that what we actually need in our hand (heart), we are angry at something but we do not really know why.
Than we use this great fruit that we have as our weapon instead to enjoy just the fruit.
When we see that we already know the way to peace, we only need to break it and drink it just for our self.
I am really very happy that I had the change to communicate with you and you should not believe that your are just a simple man. There are many who see that they hold the secret to peace already in there own hand.
May you lead a peaceful and wealth live.
_()_
with metta
Hanzze
"Actually the crime rate and corruption rate here in Cambodia is lower as for example in US. Generally people here live just the same life as somebody elsewhere, just in another way."
Sorry you lost me right here. Cambodia is a peaceful country? With less crimes and less corruption then the US? Here are some facts, if you dont understand the pain of the Khmer people please dont see them with your eyes and your ears.
Global Peace Index 2011
82 United States United States
115 Cambodia Cambodia
Corruption Perceptions Index 2011
22 United States
154 Cambodia
You dont need this stats to see the real images of the Khmer society under the Hun Sen government, if you actually talk to the people. Then again, Im not really sure if you have really seen Cambodia or even understand the pain of the people. By saying that, i will end this conversation, and hope you have a wonderful life, whether you will open your eyes or not its up to your heart to decide.
Dear friend,
I live in Cambodia with the people of all classes, I used to live next the forest even lower as the "poor" Cambodians.
As well as I know live in US (you can watch Wall Street now) live in Europe and many other places.
If we get our knowledge form media but not on side we can be very wrong. Maybe you like to look who made the statistic you have posted.
We need to know how it comes to such a statistic:
Criticism
The Corruption Perceptions Index has drawn increasing criticism in the decade since its launch, leading to calls for the index to be abandoned.[10][11][12] This criticism has been directed at the quality of the Index itself, and the lack of actionable insights created from a simple country ranking.[13][14] Because corruption is willfully hidden, it is impossible to measure directly; instead proxies for corruption are used. The CPI uses an eclectic mix of third-party surveys to sample public perceptions of corruption through a variety of questions, ranging from "Do you trust the government?" to "Is corruption a big problem in your country?"
The use of third-party survey data is a source of criticism. The data can vary widely in methodology and completeness from country to country. The methodology of the Index itself changes from year to year, thus making even basic better-or-worse comparisons difficult. Media outlets, meanwhile, frequently use the raw numbers as a yardstick for government performance, without clarifying what the numbers mean.
Form an scientist view this statistic is meaningless. It does only reflect the ideas of the people but not whats really going on.
There is no wealth without corruption and when you add the corruption that most "modern" counties do in foreign countries they would even be twice the size.
Is an easy calculation. If wealth is not bequeath, its taken from others and will be always a matter of corruption.
We should not forget that the money people are working in Cambodia comes from outside, from international companies who are maybe highly recommended in there own country and you should also know embassies and how they are deeply involved in all the actions going on.
They do it for there wealth at home. Its a circle and we can only break through the circle in understanding and teaching Dhamma and virtue.
I invite you to come, live and understand Cambodia its people and the reason of suffering on side and not form media and second hand stories.
When people don't get what they want they would be angry with everyone, but never think whats the real problem.
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with metta
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