Dear Mr. Chatterjee,
(e-mail: madhu.c@ians.in)
As a researcher of the Cambodian history, I was real amazed by your article "South Indians were the ancient money bags in Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh City", a comment on the work of whom you call veteran journalist, scholar and social activist Geetesh Sharma in his book Traces of Indian Culture in Vietnam.
It seems that you - and surely veteran journalist Sharman - do not know the several works of investigation from many well dedicated scholars in Cambodia and South East Asia.
For those who follow with attention the history, archaeology, culture and traditions of Cambodia, it is very clear that the Khmer civilization was established with contributions of what Chandley called the Indianisation (you can review this concept in a book of D. Rooney, for example, "Angkor", p. 21) that was given in the first centuries of the Christian era.
No Cambodianists will agree with such conclusion of Sharma, neither in Cambodia, not in Vietnam and less in France. Vietnam is completely absent from the what you and Sharma called the Ho Chi Minh City 2,000 years ago.
Even to refer in history to a place with its modern name is just out of scientist appreciations. It is like to say that the Philistines were living in Tel Aviv at the time of King David or that the first peoples of the America continent - something said 100, 000 years ago - were around New York. The name "Ho Chi Minh" was given after communist North Vietnam conquered Saigon (a most historical name?). They wanted to honor Ho Chi Minh, the national hero of the Vietnamese independence. Now well, talking about what is today known as Ho Chi Minh city, any well researcher will mention it as Prey Nokoh. Just that name will lead you to the real identity of the most primitive settlers: The Khmers.
I want to write a review about your article in my websites, but I want to wait for your answer first.
Thank you for your attention and welcome to Cambodia anytime to know a great and wonderful nation.
Yours sincerely,
Albeiro Rodas
Sihanoukville, Cambodia
(e-mail: madhu.c@ians.in)
As a researcher of the Cambodian history, I was real amazed by your article "South Indians were the ancient money bags in Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh City", a comment on the work of whom you call veteran journalist, scholar and social activist Geetesh Sharma in his book Traces of Indian Culture in Vietnam.
It seems that you - and surely veteran journalist Sharman - do not know the several works of investigation from many well dedicated scholars in Cambodia and South East Asia.
For those who follow with attention the history, archaeology, culture and traditions of Cambodia, it is very clear that the Khmer civilization was established with contributions of what Chandley called the Indianisation (you can review this concept in a book of D. Rooney, for example, "Angkor", p. 21) that was given in the first centuries of the Christian era.
No Cambodianists will agree with such conclusion of Sharma, neither in Cambodia, not in Vietnam and less in France. Vietnam is completely absent from the what you and Sharma called the Ho Chi Minh City 2,000 years ago.
Even to refer in history to a place with its modern name is just out of scientist appreciations. It is like to say that the Philistines were living in Tel Aviv at the time of King David or that the first peoples of the America continent - something said 100, 000 years ago - were around New York. The name "Ho Chi Minh" was given after communist North Vietnam conquered Saigon (a most historical name?). They wanted to honor Ho Chi Minh, the national hero of the Vietnamese independence. Now well, talking about what is today known as Ho Chi Minh city, any well researcher will mention it as Prey Nokoh. Just that name will lead you to the real identity of the most primitive settlers: The Khmers.
I want to write a review about your article in my websites, but I want to wait for your answer first.
Thank you for your attention and welcome to Cambodia anytime to know a great and wonderful nation.
Yours sincerely,
Albeiro Rodas
Sihanoukville, Cambodia
9 comments:
metfone is blocking my comments
Opp!
Democratic Kampuchea Pol Pot Khmer Rouge Regime
Members:
Pol Pot
Nuon Chea
Ieng Sary
Ta Mok
Khieu Samphan
Son Sen
Ieng Thearith
Kaing Kek Iev
Hun Sen
Chea Sim
Heng Samrin
Hor Namhong
Keat Chhon
Ouk Bunchhoeun
Sim Ka...
Committed:
Tortures
Brutality
Executions
Massacres
Mass Murder
Genocide
Atrocities
Crimes Against Humanity
Starvations
Slavery
Force Labour
Overwork to Death
Human Abuses
Persecution
Unlawful Detention
Cambodian People's Party Hun Sen Khmer Rouge Regime
Members:
Hun Sen
Chea Sim
Heng Samrin
Hor Namhong
Keat Chhon
Ouk Bunchhoeun
Sim Ka...
Committed:
Attempted Murders
Attempted Murder on Chea Vichea
Attempted Assassinations
Attempted Assassination on Sam Rainsy
Assassinations
Assassinated Journalists
Assassinated Political Opponents
Assassinated Leaders of the Free Trade Union
Assassinated over 80 members of Sam Rainsy Party.
"But as of today, over eighty members of my party have been assassinated. Countless others have been injured, arrested, jailed, or forced to go into hiding or into exile."
Sam Rainsy LIC 31 October 2009 - Cairo, Egypt
Executions
Executed over 100 members of FUNCINPEC Party
Murders
Murdered 3 Leaders of the Free Trade Union
Murdered Chea Vichea
Murdered Ros Sovannareth
Murdered Hy Vuthy
Murdered Journalists
Murdered Khim Sambo
Murdered Khim Sambo's son
Murdered members of Sam Rainsy Party.
Murdered activists of Sam Rainsy Party
Murdered Innocent Men
Murdered Innocent Women
Murdered Innocent Children
Killed Innocent Khmer Peoples.
Extrajudicial Execution
Grenade Attack
Terrorism
Drive by Shooting
Brutalities
Police Brutality Against Monks
Police Brutality Against Evictees
Tortures
Intimidations
Death Threats
Threatening
Human Abductions
Human Abuses
Human Rights Abuses
Human Trafficking
Drugs Trafficking
Under Age Child Sex
Corruptions
Bribery
Embezzlement
Treason
Border Encroachment, allow Vietnam to encroaching into Cambodia.
Signed away our territories to Vietnam; Koh Tral, almost half of our ocean territory oil field and others.
Illegal Arrest
Illegal Mass Evictions
Illegal Land Grabbing
Illegal Firearms
Illegal Logging
Illegal Deforestation
Illegally use of remote detonation bomb on Sokha Helicopter, while Hok Lundy and other military officials were on board.
Lightning strike many airplanes, but did not fall from the sky. Lightning strike out side of airplane and discharge electricity to ground.
Source: Lightning, Discovery Channel
Illegally Sold State Properties
Illegally Removed Parliamentary Immunity of Parliament Members
Plunder National Resources
Acid Attacks
Turn Cambodia into a Lawless Country.
Oppression
Injustice
Steal Votes
Bring Foreigners from Veitnam to vote in Cambodia for Cambodian People's Party.
Use Dead people's names to vote for Cambodian People's Party.
Disqualified potential Sam Rainsy Party's voters.
Abuse the Court as a tools for CPP to send political opponents and journalists to jail.
Abuse of Power
Abuse the Laws
Abuse the National Election Committee
Abuse the National Assembly
Violate the Laws
Violate the Constitution
Violate the Paris Accords
Impunity
Persecution
Unlawful Detention
Death in custody.
Under the Cambodian People's Party Hun Sen Khmer Rouge Regime, no criminals that has been committed crimes against journalists, political opponents, leaders of the Free Trade Union, innocent men, women and children have ever been brought to justice.
It's good that a foreigner like Albeiro knows Khmer history very well. Good job, Albeiro!
Cambodia must team up with our brother Indonesia more, because we were the same blood...
The history of SE Asia is so complex and turbulent, involving the rise and fall of many empires and population movements over thousands of years, so all sides are easily capable of making historical errors.
Kenneth So makes some valid points, but I would take issue with him when he writes:
"Kampuchea Krom did not fully become a Vietnamese state until 1954 after the French awarded the Khmer territory and granted independence to Vietnam."
As Kenneth himself writes one sentence earlier, Viet Nam actually took over Kampuchea Krom in the 17th century. Therefore Kampuchea Krom became effectively part of Viet Nam long before the French even arrived on the scene.
The Vietnam Cultural Profile website:
“....As early as 1623 the Nguyễn had married into the Khmer royal family, enabling them to establish a customs house at Prei Nokor (later Gia Định-Sài Gòn). Thereafter they brought increasing military pressure to bear on the Khmers, leading in 1749 to the cession of the lower Mekong Delta (Kampuchea Krom) to Việt Nam....”
Therefore, Viet Nam’s Nguyen lords had already consolidated their administrative control over Kampuchea Krom, well before the French even began their colonial conquest after 1858.
French colonialism set the borders of Indochina more or less as we know them today, accepting the existing status quo.
In order to “divide and conquer”, the French colonialists divided Viet Nam into 3 zones (north, centre and south) to try to break the strong spirit of Vietnamese national identity. One of these was the French southern colony of Cochin-China (Kampuchea Krom).
When Viet Nam declared its independence from France in 1945 (not 1954), it was always assumed that Cochin-China was an inseparable part of Viet Nam.
Therefore, the French did not "award" Kampuchea Krom to Viet Nam in 1954, (as stated by Kenneth), or any other time. Furthermore, in 1954 the French did not "award" or "grant" anything - they were humiliatingly defeated by the Viet Minh and ended their colonialism in all of Indochina.
Pol Pot later used racism and ultra-nationalism to reopen old sores in the relationship between Viet Nam & Cambodia for his own cynical political purposes, with disastrous results.
It would be a great tragedy if we allow the mistakes of the past to be repeated again now.
This is another historical lesson we need to learn, or never forget, for the sake of the future of the peoples of both countries.
I happen to think it is better to discuss all this calmly and rationally, rather than with irrational racist hatreds.
Bruce Mc Phie
http://lemonjuicebruce.blogspot.com/
(See the Cambodia links in my blog)
well done Mr Albeiro, May God bless you and that it is known that the truth shall set us free. In the end Khmer are now Vietkhmer, that is why we are still working together as a team. Soon, both khmer and viet will be a great nation and there will be visitors from every corner of the world. By then we will be prosperous as ever. There will be no more crime because we will have the same interest and the same goal. Together we will work for the benefit of our people. Wisdom
Hello Bruce,
We Cambodians used the 1954 date because this is considered the "legal" standpoint. This was where it becomes formalized and signed and recognized by law and convention. Where before the French arrived, though these area have fallen under Annamese military controll, they were not relinquished by Cambodia. Cambodia simply did not have the manpower to retrieve it, but she never gave up rights or claims to these territories.
This was the reason of constant warfare between the two nations that was only put to stop by the arrival of a much stronger force- the French.
Khmer people today are still sentimental on this issue because of the reminder of constant mistreatment of their fellow brethen in Vietnam. I believe that if Vietnam were to take a more conciliator and compromising approach when dealing with the native Khmers in South Vietnam, their relations with the Cambodian people can be drastically improved.
Sai Rndul
Hello Sai,
Thank you for your constructive and polite response, which is very much appreciated.
I share your sentiments in your last paragraph. In all such conflict situations, it is absolutely essential that both sides show compassion and good sense, and try to resolve problems in a spirit of compromise and mutual understanding. It takes two to tango, they say.
As to the "legal" standpoint of the 1954 date, I would like more discussion and clarity.
As I understand it, in 1863, Cambodian King Norodom signed an agreement with the French to establish a protectorate over his kingdom. The French kept Cochin-China (Kampuchea Krom) as a French administered colony.
To me, this suggests an acceptance of the status quo by both parties. But I stand to be corrected, and would welcome a more definitive legal explanation of this.
I am not a professional historian, but only an interested amateur who has read many scholarly books on this history, and my memory sometimes fails me.
My real motivation is to encourage friendly and constructive relations between the peoples of Cambodia and Viet Nam, rather than continue the long history of war, animosity and destruction.
Peace demands sensitivity and compassion from all sides, and a careful understanding of history.
Again, thank you for your constructive opinions.
Best wishes from Bruce.
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